Range for AWD Cybertruck 200-250 miles after many real world tests

[Gigahorse]

The initial guestaments were that and we're not a ironclad promise but still they took money and said the truck would be coming soon with only the specs they gave to go by. Now 4 years later we have lower specs for more money and we're not even sure if it's an official EPA number is or more importantly, what the realistic real world range will. While some say that if the EPA rating is not good enough for you, you're just uneducated. Even though there have been changes made in the way the EPA rating for EVs is decided with more changes on the way. Companies seem to have some flexibility in the way they report their numbers and third party tests have shown that many manufacturers EPA rating come up 10 to 15% short when trying to replicate the EPA tests, while a small number of companies under promise their, somebody a good amount.

For better or worse, we're all used to companies doing that and or having to check the fine print whenever you buy something regardless of what a commercial says or even if a CEO says more than once, that their truck can beat a Porsche in the quarter mile while towing another Porsche.

It would be nice to have more detailed information about what exactly comes with the truck, what exactly you're getting for the extra 20 grand and what if any caveats there may be. Having to bump into info in online forums, finding out that you do not get a charging hardware installation credit in that same 20 grand if you're getting the two motor version. Then finding out that if they don't feel it can be installed at your current property, you don't even (possibly?) get the hardware, but instead get 6 months of free supercharging that you may not even use. I'm sure the last thing they want to do is credit any money back but how about a few years of free charging or a hefty charging credit or maybe half off a color wrap?

Would also be nice if they said that improvements in the charging curve are coming if they haven't already. I do hope it gets better soon but it seems odd that they've been making EVs for quite some time, been working on the truck for at least, the last 4 years, had test mules for a while, are selling the truck now but still need to figure how fast it can charge. Anyone know what kind of things there testing for, just the battery pack getting too hot?

Has anyone made a detail list on what they receive during delivery?

Yea, I think your concerns and complaints are valid. None of use expected pricing or specs to be the exact same 4 years later, but with no updates after that period of time the drop in specs and BIG jump in price was a lot to process.

As far as people making lists I don't think there are many, as there have only been 3-4 deliveries to non-Tesla employees or people with NDAs so far. Deliveries are starting to trickle out so they should be getting some info out to us soon.

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[Woodrick]

The initial guestaments were that and we're not a ironclad promise but still they took money and said the truck would be coming soon with only the specs they gave to go by. Now 4 years later we have lower specs for more money and we're not even sure if it's an official EPA number or more importantly, what the realistic real world range will be. While some say that if the EPA rating is not good enough for you, you're just uneducated. Even though there have been changes made in the way the EPA rating for EVs is decided with more changes on the way. Companies seem to have some flexibility in the way they report their numbers and third party tests have shown that many manufacturers EPA rating come up 10 to 15% short when trying to replicate the EPA tests, while a small number of companies under promise theirs, some by a good amount.

For better or worse, we're all used to companies doing that and or having to check the fine print whenever you buy something regardless of what a commercial says or even if a CEO says more than once, that their truck can beat a Porsche in the quarter mile while towing another Porsche.

It would be nice to have more detailed information about what exactly comes with the truck, what exactly you're getting for the extra 20 grand and what if any caveats there may be. Having to bump into info in online forums, finding out that you do not get a charging hardware installation credit in that same 20 grand if you're getting the two motor version. Then finding out that if they don't feel it can be installed at your current property, you don't even (possibly?) get the hardware, but instead get 6 months of free supercharging that you may not even use. I'm sure the last thing they want to do is credit any money back but how about a few years of free charging or a hefty charging credit or maybe half off a color wrap?

Would also be nice if they said that improvements in the charging curve are coming if they haven't already. I do hope it gets better soon but it seems odd that they've been making EVs for quite some time, been working on the truck for at least the last 4 years, had test mules for a while, are selling the truck now but still need to figure how fast it can charge. Anyone know what kind of things there testing for, just the battery pack getting too hot?

Has anyone made a detail list on what they receive during delivery?

But yet there are still lots of people wanting the truck, sight unseen and specs barely known.

I bought a Model 3 and Model Y knowing pretty much the exact information and haven't regretted it yet.

And tons of folks that don't read the forums or listen to the BS on the social media platforms. I'd guess that 80% of the Cybertruck posts and videos are just downright wrong right now.

Tesla NEVER said anything about not delivering the Powershare equipment. That's just a "world is falling" poster. They also never promised you that they could install the Powershare, nor did the promise $4,000.
But I suspect that most of those talking about that don't have Foundation orders.

 

[Crissa]

EPA provides the same numbers for EVs as they do ICE. The Cybertruck's numbers just haven't been posted yet.

Show me where on the above Tesla Window Sticker it shows city, highway, and combined range please? I see lots of rather useless MPGe data, which really means nothing to consumers practically.

Ahh, but those are the same numbers as the ICE

That they're not the numbers you want is... Not Tesla's fault?

-Crissa

 

[Gigahorse]

If you’re looking to sell at any point , im looking for a Cybertruck ! I really want one and at this point I’ll take anything

Sorry plan on keeping my CT and also worried about the Tesla resale lawsuit language in that first year of ownership.

 

[Crissa]

Yes, but that doesn't really add up to the numbers on the screen.

They really need to use more of the battery; that bottom 15% is where charging is the fastest.

Low % charge the quickest, but the issue is if they took the % lower they would not make it to the next supercharger. This was a trip to get from point A to B (with a bunch of SC stops) and not a maximize charging trip. Especially out West and in rural areas you don't have the choice between charging at 15% or 2% your choice is to charge at 15% or run out of energy and get towed 60 miles.

That's not how range in a Tesla works. Many people have told you: It will know how much power it takes to get to the next charger at what speed.

If you're running short you just slow down for awhile.

If you got towed 60 miles of your 100 mile jump, you were going alot faster than 85 mph.

-Crissa

 

[cvalue13]

He got efficiency all the way up to 274 miles of range which is really good compared to other people,

I’m confused

are you saying really good compared to, for example, the highway tests?

That’s a bit like saying it’s good news that Tuesday follows Monday, no?


And it’s not great news, far as I can tell. A truck with 320mi EPA combined should do well more than that in the city text - 350+ in the case of the Lightning EPA city

with this guy purporting to drive city so meaningfully, 274 is 23% less than might be expected (if using the Lightning EPA city as proxy).

you report he says max speed 55, none on hwy (so I take it not sustained)

but if anything this result is arguably a bit more surprising than the various “sustained Hwy” tests

increased aero drag/conditions are not as impactful at city speeds (nearing nominal) , and so there is less reason to expect material deviation from headline range city results.

put differently, at small increases in hwy speeds even little differences can have increasingly large impacts. But at city speeds even big changes can have relatively small impact. So variation from expected at city speeds is that much more surprising.

 

[Gurule92]

How does this thread keep coming back? Lol giga revive it again? ?

 

[Gigahorse]

I’m confused

are you saying really good compared to, for example, the highway tests?

That’s a bit like saying it’s good news that Tuesday follows Monday, no?


And it’s not great news, far as I can tell. A truck with 320mi EPA combined should do well more than that in the city text - 350+ in the case of the Lightning EPA city

with this guy purporting to drive city so meaningfully, 274 is 23% less than might be expected (if using the Lightning EPA city as proxy).

you report he says max speed 55, none on hwy (so I take it not sustained)

but if anything this result is arguably a bit more surprising than the various “sustained Hwy” tests

increased aero drag/conditions are not as impactful at city speeds (nearing nominal) , and so there is less reason to expect material deviation from headline range city results.

put differently, at small increases in hwy speeds even little differences can have increasingly large impacts. But at city speeds even big changes can have relatively small impact. So variation from expected at city speeds is that much more surprising.

With so many variables in the real world range test it is tough to get an exact comparison, this test being "better" is simply the fact that 274 > 178 or some of the other really rough range numbers that have come out. I suspect and hope that the range number reports will start to average out and trend towards overall better range for the vehicle. But I understand that low speed driving and getting 274 might mean worse overall efficiency than high speed driving and getting 178.

 

[Amuma]

*Edit, bunch of new info out, posts added along with TLDR
TLDR after 40+ days and now over 10,000 miles and dozens of reports on CTs
AWD CT Costs $113k out the door (Beast is about $123k may be more depending on your state taxes etc)
AWD CT has about 208 miles of range (AWD with AS Tires)
AWD CT takes about 1-2 hours to charge 10-80% (v2-v3 supercharger)

Vehicle has a ton of cool features like steer by wire, storage options, modular systems in vault.
But the cost/range/charge I think is pretty far from what a lot of us were expecting.

View attachment 34671

Hopefully Tesla pushes some BIG software updates and drops this early pricing soon




*Edit added large almost 6,000 mile range total mileage report

*Edit Up to 8 or 10 real world range reports. Looking pretty good at slow speeds (250ish), rough on the highway (sub 200).

*Edit with more people posting numbers looks like the average wh/mile is going down a bit which means the real world range average is going up, likely around 215 miles of range which is a great start.
- Added a couple more data sets from posts and new CT owners.
- Highway driving looks like 180 miles of range roughly city/slow driving however is looking pretty good at 220-300

The recent 6,000 mile numbers show the real world avg for a 70/30 highway/city split or big average range to be about 207 miles. AWD CT

All these are just small samples so should be taken with a grain of salt, but this is more info than we have gotten on real world range in the last 4+ years so grateful to have it.

Lots of real world range numbers are coming in via videos getting posted now that some non Tesla employees are getting trucks.
Early report of really bad efficiency like 810 wh/mile were chalked up to speeds over 70MPH, bad driving, etc.
New numbers coming in now are no better at lower speeds.

20 mile test drive (ended up being 21)
Average speed of 63 MPH
Mostly highway driving
689 Wh/mi
Giving the AWD Cybertruck a range of 178.5 miles

*Notes*
2 Passengers
2 Carry on size suitcasestonneau
Tonneau cover closed
Minimal HVAC
Nothing being towed/hauled
Battery was warm as this was a stop on long trip and this was supercharger 3+ on the trip

*Edit*
More #s coming in from road trippers and cross country trippers.
Most Wh/mi are in the high 600s to mid 700s or 181 miles of real world range

More #s posted.
Effectively downhill with a total elevation loss of over 400'
117 mile trip
Temperature of 60-65 f
Battery went from 86% to 10% (76%)
Roughly a 700 wh/mi AKA real world range of 179 miles
Required 55min charge to have enough range to do the next leg of 148 miles with a 10% reserve

*Edit
More #s coming in from a full charging video 14-90% by ourcyberlife
The charging numbers look pretty bad, even at a V3 supercharger and are in line with other early reports.
Basically drive 143mins and then have to charge for 50+

Temperature was about ideal at 73 degrees f

*Edit
Another trip showing MUCH better wh/mile numbers. This one posted publicly
@ZachSMickelson
This was an AWD driving a little under 70mph and getting right around 400 wh/mile which is the best we have seen so far and the first time the real world range of this truck looks like it can hit over 300 at 305. Very encouraging.

*Edit
A set of trip numbers from a driver who reportedly was trying to max eco and range, lower speeds, no HVAC other than seat warmer for driver, etc. Got the efficiency way better at 454 Wh/mi which would be about 260 miles of real world range, one of the best we have seen so far.

*Edit
Video comment updated that one of the 1,000+ mile road trips done recently by a new CT owner is going to have a full video posted with multiple charge curves, mileage breakdowns etc. Hopefully getting released in the next couple of days so fingers crossed as this would be a ton of info. *Total trip full numbers coming with a video but said for the trip it was 672 wh/mile which is 183 miles of real world range

*Edit
A few more short trip reports are slowly coming in, looks like in general if the CT is kept under 30MPH or busy city driving conditions the wh/Mile can be as low as the high 300s.
wmorrill3 and others are showing that 300+ is possible under the right conditions which is cause for optimism
Equating to a real world range at those lower speeds of over 300 miles (318) which is much closer to advertised range.

*Edit
The rough average Wh/mile looks to be around 575. With the current reports, which pushes the total range over the 200 mile mark (214) which is a big improvement. Hopefully more and better data will continue to come in.
- All AWD, All Foundation Series, Mix of media reporting YT,X,Reddit,TT
- It currently is winter so cold is having an impact along with minor impact from factory tires.

*Edit
First warm weather real world posted test, maybe?. Mix of city and highway, round trip so elevation was a wash, 77 degrees F average speed of 31MPH, only drivers cooled seat used. This puts the mixed range of this AWD FS CT at about 279 of real world range, granted at a low avg speed but keeping the speed low seems to have added 100ish miles of real world range helping support a lot of theories that the high speed (60MPH+ ) is what is delivering those sub 200 mile ranges

*Edit
Pretty large mileage distance on this one. Trip max speed was 55 MPH due to back roads and mostly city driving. Vast majority was back and forth so minimal elevation impact. Air temps between 55-75F, minimal HVAC, mostly using seats. AWD FS CT
Looks like 281 is realistic real world range with mostly city and lower speed driving.

*Edit
Biggest mileage/range/distance report so far. Came from a private group and owner had privacy concerns but shared some info they said could be passed along
AWD CT
2 Drivers
Mix of about 70% highway 30% city
Due to insurance being VERY high and insurance app speed limit has NOT been broken (maybe a couple 5-10MPH over instances for a very short amount of time)
No hauling, towing
Mostly driven in warmer weather for this time of year minimum of about 30, max of about 80, avg of about 70
Almost about 80% supercharging and 20% destination charging
Charging at V2 superchargers pretty slow and tedious if a 60% charge was needed to reach next charger
Charge curve similar to the ourcyberlife curve at V3 superchargers
No V4 superchargers tested yet
Real world range for this almost 6,000 mile sample is about 208 miles of real world range not as much data as we would like but super grateful to get some significant distance #s
View attachment 33631

Out of spec did basically highway hypermiling keeping it at 70 during the highway phase, until he rant out of juice and had to get towed... This is from 100%-0% so 254 miles or in the real world not getting about 200 miles.......... of real world range.

Ton of videos coming out and data coming in over the last few days.
Jury is pretty much in, truck drives awesome but range and charging are a problem for many.

Out of spec charging data update, charge speeds are really slow unfortunately.
Overall out of spec charge review was "poor" for charging
"This is the worst part of the cybertruck"
"this makes cybertruck a tough sell"

New test loop data in, likely best and most realistic test done yet
72% city 28% highway
Max speed of 70MPH
Average speed of 36MPH
Speed limit during entire drive was not exceeded
Ambient temperature 67-69F
Loop was done to negate wind/elevation
No HVAC Used
One driver, with camera equipment, no additional weight
FS AWD CT with All Season Tires
Truck was Vinyl wrapped
= 223 miles of real world range

FINALLY got some good news on range.
553 miles of commute driving (to and from work for a week)
This 500+ rough range test is almost all out and back trips from the owners home, so elevation and wind impacts are minimized.
All city driving with a max speed of 55 MPH, has not been on the highway since trip reset.
No significant weight hauled in truck, temp range in CA 55-75f

BUT at 453 wh/mile this would put the real world range of this AWD CT with AS tires at 271 miles of real world range. Granted this is just city/town driving but this is one of the first significant mileage out/back style range reports that has the CT significantly over 200 miles of real world range.

GREAT news for people doing in town driving!

Another driver did several days of efficiency maxing to and from work. Total of 399 miles, warmer temps and slower city driving but got all the way up to 273 miles of range when shooting for max safe efficiency!

"
TLDR after 40+ days and now over 10,000 miles and dozens of reports on CTs
AWD CT Costs $113k out the door (may be more depending on your state taxes etc)
AWD CT has about 208 miles of range (AWD with AS Tires)
AWD CT takes about 1-2 hours to charge (v2-v3 supercharger)


Vehicle has a ton of cool features like steer by wire, storage options, modular systems in vault.
But the cost/range/charge I think is pretty far from what a lot of us were expecting.

View attachment 34671

Hopefully Tesla pushes some BIG software updates and drops this early pricing soon

From those that actually know Tesla and have the truck they are ok with the range and charging and is getting what they are expecting. If the charging speeds are slower than normal they knew it was the charger and not the truck and switches and got much better charging speeds >220 on a V3 plus with v4 on the horizon and addtl software updates I'm not worried.

 

[Woodrick]

With so many variables

Now this is getting funny, @cvalue and @Gigahorse getting into arguments with each other.

For those that haven't followed either one of these two, over the last few weeks, both of their opinions and "technical facts" have changed dramatically.


And odds are that @cvalue is going to respond with a 4 page message with lots of graphs in it

 

[Gigahorse]

Now this is getting funny, @cvalue and @Gigahorse getting into arguments with each other.

For those that haven't followed either one of these two, over the last few weeks, both of their opinions and "technical facts" have changed dramatically.


And odds are that @cvalue is going to respond with a 4 page message with lots of graphs in it

Over the last few weeks the vehicle has been released and we have gotten a decent little stream of new data. So my opinion of the CT, as well as many others has changed as new information has become available.

Interestingly enough what has not seemed to change is you following me throughout the forum responding to every post I make.

 

[Woodrick]

Over the last few weeks the vehicle has been released and we have gotten a decent little stream of new data. So my opinion of the CT, as well as many others has changed as new information has become available.

Interestingly enough what has not seemed to change is you following me throughout the forum responding to every post I make.

And we've told you to stop listening to that early information because it wasn't representative all along. You seem to be surprised at what you are seeing now. Most Tesla owners knew it all along. The only thing that your posts have done is scare the crap out of people.

So, I'm not following you. I follow the forums and feel a need to reply to misinformation.

And yes, you can basically assume that just about everything that you have posted is indeed misinformation. Only now are posting things that are getting close to reality.

 

[Gigahorse]

And we've told you to stop listening to that early information because it wasn't representative all along. You seem to be surprised at what you are seeing now. Most Tesla owners knew it all along. The only thing that your posts have done is scare the crap out of people.

So, I'm not following you. I follow the forums and feel a need to reply to misinformation.

And yes, you can basically assume that just about everything that you have posted is indeed misinformation. Only now are posting things that are getting close to reality.

Just because a data set does not fit your ideal or opinion does not make the data misinformation.
I would LOVE to see you post new info on the CT but pretty much only see your criticism of other people's posts.

Being content to wait 2-3 years to see how the CT pans out is not a great option for those of us with early reservations and are trying to make a decision on this vehicle.

Comment history is public, as it should be, so I think people can make their own mind up about the level of obsession.

 

[Woodrick]

Just because a data set does not fit your ideal or opinion does not make the data misinformation.
I would LOVE to see you post new info on the CT but pretty much only see your criticism of other people's posts.

Being content to wait 2-3 years to see how the CT pans out is not a great option for those of us with early reservations and are trying to make a decision on this vehicle.

Comment history is public, as it should be, so I think people can make their own mind up about the level of obsession.

You seem to think that "quoted your post" means something, in either a good or bad fashion.
All it means is that I am including a snipit of the conversation so that readers can follow along.

It seems as if you believe that listening to YouTube or reading X and then cross-posting with bad conclusions is helpful info. It isn't.

What do I bring? About 7 years of working other Tesla forums, 9 years of EV driving, nearly 7 years of Tesla driving, 6 years of ONLY owning EVs, including my zero-turn mower, (but alas, one of my boats are still ICE).

Therefore, quite a bit of knowledge of the EV industry and Tesla.

And so much more having to defend the BS from Social Media with real facts.

Tesla posted their range numbers a few months ago. People who didn't understand what the EPA numbers are and those that don't understand how Tesla uses their number came up with a lot of crap, that wasn't quite true.
And you kept cross-posting it. And people need to be informed of reality, which is so different from Social Media reality.

In other words, sure, you may be the #1 person that I quote. That really says a lot about your information.

Lately you've been posting BS numbers on what you were thinking towing range was going to be. If you've noticed, I've tended to tell you that your number wasn't real. And now that you find out, you seem surprised.
I told you that I could haul the load that the tests were using, you had to go to ABRP to confirm it.
How did I know, I hauled my boat to Crystal Springs a year ago. quite surprising to me, I only got 75 miles of range. But yet I made it to Crystal Springs. You see, I'm a little surprised how good the Cybertruck's towing range is!

And if it wasn't a know issue then why would companies like PebbleLife be building trailers that tend to negate the issue?
Pebble | Where Home Meets the Road (pebblelife.com)

 

[Gigahorse]

What do I bring? About 7 years of working other Tesla forums, 9 years of EV driving, nearly 7 years of Tesla driving, 6 years of ONLY owning EVs, including my zero-turn mower, (but alas, one of my boats are still ICE).

Not sure what one does "working other Tesla forums" but as everyone other than 5 members of this forum is a perspective CT owner. I would think that as many of us you joined this forum VERY recently you would be more open and interested in new CT data, to interpret how you will.

No hard feelings, it is just a little wild when someone replies to THAT many of your comments claiming blasphemy when all I have done is report info that has not been posted on yet.
If this forum is to consist only of first hand information about the cybertruck it would have about 3 posts on it, so until I get mine posting some second hand information and wading through what others post is about the only option many of us have.

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