Range for AWD Cybertruck 200-250 miles after many real world tests

[HitchHiker71]

EPA provides the same numbers for EVs as they do ICE. The Cybertruck's numbers just haven't been posted yet.

And honestly, I'd say that 50% of the car buyers don't know how to interpret or even look at the EPA numbers on a car. And for another 25%, all they know is the bigger the better.

Show me where on the above Tesla Window Sticker it shows city, highway, and combined range please? I see lots of rather useless MPGe data, which really means nothing to consumers practically.

The thing to remember is that the Model Y is the #1 selling car in America and it has essentially the same numbers. That's all that probably 80% of the people will care about.

Depends on what you mean by this statement. The MY was not the best selling vehicle in America in 2023. Car? Yes. The MY had a great year here in the US - increasing 56% YoY. It was easily the best selling EV in America with 394,497 units sold. In the first quarter of 2023, the Model Y became the world's best-selling car, surpassing the Toyota RAV4 and Corolla. In August 2023, the Model Y became the top-selling car globally across more than 160 countries. However, if we're talking vehicles sold in America, the F150/GM Silverado/Sierra, and RAM series pickups handily outsold the MY in the US in 2023 in comparison. It will be interesting to see what happens in 2024 undoubtedly with respect to EV sales volumes.

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[Celiboy]

Hopeful for both.
1. If it has a bigger battery pack it will allow for fewer charging stops AND the option to choose V3 instead of V2 chargers which will result in faster charging
2. If Tesla can increase the charge rate for the cells and get a better charging curve this will reduce charging time
3. With better range there will be more trips that require none, or only maybe 1 supercharge instead of multiple

That is the hope anyway, the current system of a small battery/range and slow charging times does not seem viable
1. Short range, forced to stop more and at V2 superchargers
2. Current charge curve is bad/slow
3. Short range means a more charges per trip

That’s understandable. Tesla has a history of improving vehicles over time and only time will tell if this is an issue they tackle. I believe when they offered the range extender as an option, they were communicating their stance on range. I agree that improvement in battery technology and software development can improve the curve, but I’m skeptical those improvements will equal substantial increases in range given the 123kW battery pack size. Hopefully I’m wrong because there will be a time when I upgrade to a newer model.

 

[HitchHiker71]

New Out of Spec video on CT charging with comparisons to Rivian, F150L, and Hummer. CC analysis included.

 

[Gigahorse]

That’s understandable. Tesla has a history of improving vehicles over time and only time will tell if this is an issue they tackle. I believe when they offered the range extender as an option, they were communicating their stance on range. I agree that improvement in battery technology and software development can improve the curve, but I’m skeptical those improvements will equal substantial increases in range given the 123kW battery pack size. Hopefully I’m wrong because there will be a time when I upgrade to a newer model.

A new charging test just came out, charging curve is really rough currently
Via out of spec

64 mile test loop with 30% highway and 70% city one full round trip to negate wind and elevation with an ambient temp of 68F with no HVAC used resulted in 223 miles of real world range

 

[Woodrick]

I understand what you're saying - and personally I agree - but here's what the fanboy base doesn't seem to understand or seems to simply dismiss. Traditional automotive consumers are likely never going to do what you're saying here. This is the same argument I repeatedly have with a few of my Tesla fanboy friends. The alpha early adopters will do this. They will not follow the navigation recommendations, and instead calculate their own best route using lower SoC as you're outlining here. But that's not what the navigation software does, and for the vast majority of traditional automotive consumers - they will never go to this level of detail to use their vehicle. The beta early adopters will do this - like me - but I have spoken to so many more traditional automotive consumers and when I go down this path - their answer is simple - if what you're saying is true about maintainin a lower SoC and stopping more often - then why doesn't the inbuilt navigation software do it? That's a very legitimate question. Does anyone have to do this with ICE vehicles? Nope. And many people travel more often than once a year. We are in our early 50's and we travel monthly to destinations within a 2-3 hour drive - and several times a year to destinations within a 5-6 hour drive - in addition to our 1-2 week long family vacations. Fortunately we don't tow for those trips. We typically time our longer 5-6 hour (250-300 mile one way) trips such that we stop for lunch/dinner and charge from 10-90% since we are sitting in a restaurant anyways, so why not, that way we aren't running on fumes when we arrive at our destination. The shorter 2-3 hour drives we simply charge up to 95-100% before leaving and we generally arrive at our destination with 35-50% charge left - so easy peasy.

The above concerns are as an investor/stockholder primarily - as Tesla is now bumping up against saturation of early adopters and if Tesla doesn't solve for these problems within the software itself - then the more traditional automotive consumers will simply continue to purchase ICE/HEV/PHEV vehicles instead. Lastly, I totally agree that it makes zero sense for most consumers to not buy a BEV based upon the exceptions and not the rules with respect to what you're saying about 360 vs 365 days a year. I've often said this myself on other BEV forums. The logic doesn't make sense to me or to you obviously - but then again - the customer is generally always right - regardless of whether their logic pans out or makes sense to us.

Tesla's nav systems are designed to be conservative. They are designed to guarantee you that you will get there. That's very valid since so many people think that you can't get there in an EV.

You can't compare the recharging solution that I was mentioning to ICE. That's because the ICE refilling procedure is linear. X gal/min go into your tank from 0% to 100%.

As to running out of early adopters? The Model Y is out there fighting those battles. If you see your neighbor driving one, you start to realize that it may be possible for anyone.

 

[Celiboy]

A new charging test just came out, charging curve is really rough currently
Via out of spec

64 mile test loop with 30% highway and 70% city one full round trip to negate wind and elevation with an ambient temp of 68F with no HVAC used resulted in 223 miles of real world range

Maybe as more trucks are delivered and Tesla has more charging data they can make changes to improve the curve. It’s really only an issue on longer trips and towing so if that was the plan, I can see people waiting to see the improvements before buying. Everyone’s use case is different. When I’m driving our M3 or MY around town, I drive to enjoy them not to try and get the most efficiency out of them. I charge at home, have solar and we usually only need to charge the cars once a week. Throwing the truck into that mix will be the same. When I do tow, I’ll be more deliberate knowing I’ll be getting less efficiency just like I currently do with my ICE truck.

 

[Gigahorse]

Maybe as more trucks are delivered and Tesla has more charging data they can make changes to improve the curve. It’s really only an issue on longer trips and towing so if that was the plan, I can see people waiting to see the improvements before buying. Everyone’s use case is different. When I’m driving our M3 or MY around town, I drive to enjoy them not to try and get the most efficiency out of them. I charge at home, have solar and we usually only need to charge the cars once a week. Throwing the truck into that mix will be the same. When I do tow, I’ll be more deliberate knowing I’ll be getting less efficiency just like I currently do with my ICE truck.

I really hope so, the bad range numbers are nothing new but doable.
This charging info is really bad

 

[Gigahorse]

New charging curve via out of spec is really depressing from out of spec. BUT

Did not get much of a break to process that before this efficiency drive data came in

New test loop data in, likely best and most realistic test done yet
72% city 28% highway
Max speed of 70MPH
Average speed of 36MPH
Speed limit during entire drive was not exceeded
Ambient temperature 67-69F
Loop was done to negate wind/elevation
No HVAC Used
One driver, with camera equipment, no additional weight
FS AWD CT with All Season Tires
Truck was Vinyl wrapped
= 223 miles of real world range in pretty ideal conditions

 

[Woodrick]

Show me where on the above Tesla Window Sticker it shows city, highway, and combined range please? I see lots of rather useless MPGe data, which really means nothing to consumers practically.



Depends on what you mean by this statement. The MY was not the best selling vehicle in America in 2023. Car? Yes. The MY had a great year here in the US - increasing 56% YoY. It was easily the best selling EV in America with 394,497 units sold. In the first quarter of 2023, the Model Y became the world's best-selling car, surpassing the Toyota RAV4 and Corolla. In August 2023, the Model Y became the top-selling car globally across more than 160 countries. However, if we're talking vehicles sold in America, the F150/GM Silverado/Sierra, and RAM series pickups handily outsold the MY in the US in 2023 in comparison. It will be interesting to see what happens in 2024 undoubtedly with respect to EV sales volumes.

See the numbers next to the big 126 MPGe. 131 City and 120 Hwy? Those are the numbers. The 126 is the combined. They are showing it as comparison to an ICE.
What? They don't show range? Do they show it on an ICE?
Confusing would be to show range on when and MPG on another.

But again, range ain't that big of thing.

And the fact that it is the pickups that are outselling the Model Y is the exact reason why Tesla built the Cybertruck.

Next is the low price vehicle. All three hitting the market where it hurts.

 

[Gigahorse]

See the numbers next to the big 126 MPGe. 131 City and 120 Hwy? Those are the numbers. The 126 is the combined. They are showing it as comparison to an ICE.
What? They don't show range? Do they show it on an ICE?
Confusing would be to show range on when and MPG on another.

But again, range ain't that big of thing.

And the fact that it is the pickups that are outselling the Model Y is the exact reason why Tesla built the Cybertruck.

Next is the low price vehicle. All three hitting the market where it hurts.

The range at a real world 200ish miles is rough on the CT but doable, what may be the Achilles heel is the charging
Via out of spec today
"this makes cybertruck a tough sell" - Kyle Out of Spec Reviews

 

[CyberGus]

I'd say that 50% of the car buyers don't know how to interpret or even look at the EPA numbers

I'd say that 50% of forum members don't understand EPA numbers ?‍

 

[CyberGus]

Afterall bleach bottles say “don’t drink me”

Well NOW you tell me!??

 

[scottf200]

The range at a real world 200ish miles is rough on the CT but doable, what may be the Achilles heel is the charging
Via out of spec today
"this makes cybertruck a tough sell" - Kyle Out of Spec Reviews

Rivian comparison.

Road trip from 10%-70% is common. NACS will help non-Tesla EVs this year.
https://outofspecstudios.com/charging

 

[CyberGus]

if Tesla was able to install a battery pack capable of 500 miles of range it would take some time to charge all those extra batteries

A larger pack does not necessarily have longer charge times.

Look at the charge curve; most of the time, you're not utilizing the full output.

 

[HitchHiker71]

See the numbers next to the big 126 MPGe. 131 City and 120 Hwy? Those are the numbers. The 126 is the combined. They are showing it as comparison to an ICE.
What? They don't show range? Do they show it on an ICE?
Confusing would be to show range on when and MPG on another.

But again, range ain't that big of thing.

And the fact that it is the pickups that are outselling the Model Y is the exact reason why Tesla built the Cybertruck.

Next is the low price vehicle. All three hitting the market where it hurts.

My point is that just about every traditional/normative automotive consumer - knows exactly how to calculate their city/highway driving range. It's simple. Take the MPG and multiply by the number of gallons the gas tank holds. This is blatantly obvious given how often we see the concerns raised by these same consumers every day. i.e. I can drive 600 miles in my 2018 RAM 1500 on the highway before having to refuel. How do they know that? Does any normal consumer know how to calculate the range from the MPGe ratings in the window sticker? Nope. That's why Tesla only advertises the EPA range on their website. Personally I think the Window Stickers should actually show the estimates for range - not just the MPG or MPGe. When prospective buyers are looking at an ICE window sticker - they can easily calculate the range in their heads - because it's widely known how to do it. Most consumers have no idea how to make this calculation with BEVs in comparison.

Range may not be that big of a thing to the early adopter base - I get it - and as I've already stated - that's not going to help selling BEVs to the traditional automotive consumer IMHO. I live in suburbia on a street that has 36 single family homes. I'm literally the only home on my street that owns a BEV. A few homeowners own HEVs (Prius type vehicles), and a couple own PHEVs. I've spoken to most of the homeowners on my block when out walking at one point or another - only a handful have any real plans to consider a BEV for their next vehicle. At least some of them are considering a HEV/PHEV though. Range, charging station reliability (it's a real problem outside of Tesla), and charge times are the biggest detractors mentioned during the conversations I've witnessed. This is obviously anecdotal, but it's likely representative of much of suburban America at least from what I've witnessed. BEVs are much more common in urban areas from what I have observed.

The ongoing arguments over real world range vs EPA rated ranges - are exactly what prevent traditional consumers from seriously considering a BEV - since range is the largest concern brought up persistently. We're sitting here witnessing early adopters (alphas and betas) arguing about range constantly. What do we think this all demonstrates to the more traditional buyers? I'll tell you as I've asked - stay away from BEVs - that's the answer I've received.

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