Is the 80% recommended charge real?

[CyberGus]

Use what you paid for, not abusively per se, but neither "babying" the battery

Right, you don't need to "baby" anything. The BMS won't let you hurt it.

But, it's helpful to know that a lower average SoC produces lower degradation. If you only use 20% per day, then you're better off charging to 50% daily, rather than to 100% and down to 80%.

You could run at 100% daily and would probably never reach the warranty degradation threshold, but there'd be a noticeable reduction in total range.

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[GuyV]

I have very mixed feelings about this 80% issue from a few perspectives.

I enjoy my CT. IMO the EV industry should have taking the range / charging issue much more seriously, clearly and been direct with customers.

1. The stated range an an EV is on the 'one-hand' based on 100% battery capacity.

2. Upon filling the tank of my EV - you are 'urged/cautioned/warned/implied threatened to 'not fill' my tank to 100%. [Damage could occur, not good for long term longevity, etc] [[Also, the EV companies 'are watching' your charging behavior - implying that it could be held against you in a component/ warranty issue.]]

When I agreed to buy my EV I signed and agreed to make a monthly payment --- 100% of that monthly payment for the term of the loan.

No one thinks for a moment that 100% of that payment means anything else. It is agreed that 100% of the loan payment is due – not subject to some ‘interpretation’ discount or criteria.

Monday I went on a 180 mile total distance trip to pick up some hardware. And I am presenting with the following situation.

• The CT was charged to 80% [ now understood to be your ‘100% daily’ capacity.]
• Half-way : when I reached my pickup destination. The CT reports I have 48% capacity left.
• ??? So what does that mean exactly?...48% of 80% is not the same as 48% of 100% capacity?

I actually arrived back home with 6% battery – at which the CT posted on orange text ‘Charge immediately’

For the daily EV driver – this should not be complicated. I don’t want to have to perform algebra and ‘solve for X’ when making simple estimates for the usage and range of my EV.

If I made 80% of my CT payment. Tesla finance would not tolerate one-iota of BS about ‘optimal long term adjustments to the term of the loan’

My wife was with me and was concerned about this. She noted that the EV was charged to 80% - she understands that is basically ‘100%’.

What came in the discussion is what the navigation usage estimates are actually based on? What good is an estimate projection that is essentially off by 20%?

Adding to my concerns are that the Tesla Supercharging stations are now limiting your max charge to 80%. One here in Orange County near my office is limiting charging to 80%.

On a real-world extended road trip - subject to these chargers - what good is a range estimate - when my actual charge capacity is off by 20%? Consider on a trip requiring 2 charges - it estimate is off by 40%??? - that is kind of unacceptable. [I'd take my ICE car in for repair - if the tank/range estimate varied by 40%]

On an ICE car the gas tank capacity in gallons is based on the actual, fillable capacity, not some 'theoretical' capacity.

I am not Tesla hating here. I used the generic term 'EV' as this seems to be the industry standard.

Maybe Grok will solve this? ?

 

[JackCypher]

And maybe even illogical to try to preserve the battery by acting as if it were 20% smaller than it actually is, rarely if ever benefiting from the fact that it is the size that it is. Use what you paid for, not abusively per se, but neither "babying" the battery with the sole net result of improving the experience of the next owner.

One of my points is using the 'recommended' defaults for charging - you're never offered 100%. 20% less of something is significant.

The navigation systems does not use this assumption - it assumes 100%. The trend in travel superchargers is 80% is full.

And people ARE getting stranded in EV's, perhaps this is an element causing confusion to the everyday customer.

What would be truly transparent and actually clear, is for the Navigation to report the ACTUAL range based on the ACTUAL current battery charge.

...As you are ACTUALLY going to drive that distance.

It knows the actual battery charge level - and can easily calculate it projects based on that.

 

[dalton108]

One of my points is using the 'recommended' defaults for charging - you're never offered 100%. 20% less of something is significant.

The navigation systems does not use this assumption - it assumes 100%. The trend in travel superchargers is 80% is full.

And people ARE getting stranded in EV's, perhaps this is an element causing confusion to the everyday customer.

I think getting stranded in a Tesla, because you ran out of juice would require quite a bit of effort and planning.

 

[GuyV]

And maybe even illogical to try to preserve the battery by acting as if it were 20% smaller than it actually is, rarely if ever benefiting from the fact that it is the size that it is. Use what you paid for, not abusively per se, but neither "babying" the battery with the sole net result of improving the experience of the next owner.

I still have my 2013 Model S, because I still love it. I have always mostly supercharged it because it's free and convenient for me. Yes, I did have to replace the battery after a bit more than 10 years, but it was because of moisture ingress, not cell degradation. I am told the physical designs have much improved so I shouldn't experience that with the Cybertruck. We'll see, whether that's still a problem or some other thing, but I am not going to worry about cell degradation; I think that's far down the list of things likely to go wrong. The truck's in the shop right now, hadn't anticipated a tornado would drop a big tree limb on it, go figure.

 

[dalton108]

I still have my 2013 Model S, because I still love it. I have always mostly supercharged it because it's free and convenient for me. Yes, I did have to replace the battery after a bit more than 10 years, but it was because of moisture ingress, not cell degradation. I am told the physical designs have much improved so I shouldn't experience that with the Cybertruck. We'll see, whether that's still a problem or some other thing, but I am not going to worry about cell degradation; I think that's far down the list of things likely to go wrong. The truck's in the shop right now, hadn't anticipated a tornado would drop a big tree limb on it, go figure.

May I ask the size and cost of battery replacement? Was it under warranty?

Edit: TREE LIMB! ?

 

[mongo]

The navigation systems does not use this assumption - it assumes 100%. The trend in travel superchargers is 80% is full.

And people ARE getting stranded in EV's, perhaps this is an element causing confusion to the everyday customer.

What would be truly transparent and actually clear, is for the Navigation to report the ACTUAL range based on the ACTUAL current battery charge.

...As you are ACTUALLY going to drive that distance.

It knows the actual battery charge level - and can easily calculate it projects based on that.

On car nav uses current SOC
App nav allows changing departure battery level.
78% currently

100% if leaving in the morning

Truck nav: 78% and less optimistic than the phone app

 

[GuyV]

May I ask the size and cost of battery replacement? Was it under warranty?

It was about $21k for a new, not remanufactured battery, including a required suspension upgrade because it is a 90kWh pack made from the 100kWh with modules removed. I chose to pay more for the new pack because it is the improved design and not having to worry about its prior usage. I figured the suspension parts replaced were probably due for replacement soon anyway. And I got a slight upgrade from P85 to P90.

No doubt this is only cost/effective for someone like me who really likes the old original Model S and its features and wants to keep it for as many years as practical. I got the CT for all the advanced tech, FSD, etc., but I totally enjoy driving the old RWD performance S, the sunroof, the rear-facing kid seats, the huge frunk and the yacht floor instead of console, obviously enjoying the free supercharging and premium connectivity too. LOL, still getting those software updates as well, that's kind of amazing.

 

[hemiarch]

The Tesla battery warranty is the great equalizer here though, no?

 

[Beetlebug62]

One of my points is using the 'recommended' defaults for charging - you're never offered 100%. 20% less of something is significant.

The navigation systems does not use this assumption - it assumes 100%. The trend in travel superchargers is 80% is full.

And people ARE getting stranded in EV's, perhaps this is an element causing confusion to the everyday customer.

What would be truly transparent and actually clear, is for the Navigation to report the ACTUAL range based on the ACTUAL current battery charge.

...As you are ACTUALLY going to drive that distance.

It knows the actual battery charge level - and can easily calculate it projects based on that.

I'm confused because I'm not understanding this at all. My Nav doesn't assume I have 100%, unless I charged to 100%.

You're talking the trip planner, right? When I look at the Energy chart, it shows my actual SOC starting at when I started, 49%, and the current level 9.8%. I did 1.1% better than estimated. Are you using this screen?

 

[REM]

For the daily EV driver – this should not be complicated. I don’t want to have to perform algebra and ‘solve for X’ when making simple estimates for the usage and range of my EV.

You do this instinctively with your phone already; so just apply that same sentiment to an EV.

If I made 80% of my CT payment. Tesla finance would not tolerate one-iota of BS about ‘optimal long term adjustments to the term of the loan’

This is a very strange non-sequitur, and I'm not understanding why you would compare a loan with an electrical system.

My wife was with me and was concerned about this. She noted that the EV was charged to 80% - she understands that is basically ‘100%’.

But that's not correct. You absolutely can charge up to 100 if you actually need the extra range. If you don't, there are plenty of reasons to stick with 80%.

What came in the discussion is what the navigation usage estimates are actually based on? What good is an estimate projection that is essentially off by 20%?

I doubt the estimate was off by that much without some sort of extreme factor you aren't considering. Did you check the round trip estimate? Did you stop for an extended period of time where your truck was running the A/C and sentry mode in 95 degree weather?

Adding to my concerns are that the Tesla Supercharging stations are now limiting your max charge to 80%. One here in Orange County near my office is limiting charging to 80%.

They are probably just throttling your charge limit automatically to 80 under times of extreme congestion. You can bump it back up if you need to. I think there are some stations in extremely busy areas that will charge you a higher rate if you choose to take up one of those spaces for an additional hour to go from 80 to 100 though. But that seems justified to me.

And for the vast majority of cases when people do that, they aren't in the car, they aren't in a hurry, or traveling long distance. Which is: a complete dick move to others who are lol. It's like parking your car at the pump, and walking inside.

 

[dalton108]

It was about $21k for a new, not remanufactured battery, including a required suspension upgrade because it is a 90kWh pack made from the 100kWh with modules removed. I chose to pay more for the new pack because it is the improved design and not having to worry about its prior usage. I figured the suspension parts replaced were probably due for replacement soon anyway. And I got a slight upgrade from P85 to P90.

No doubt this is only cost/effective for someone like me who really likes the old original Model S and its features and wants to keep it for as many years as practical. I got the CT for all the advanced tech, FSD, etc., but I totally enjoy driving the old RWD performance S, the sunroof, the rear-facing kid seats, the huge frunk and the yacht floor instead of console, obviously enjoying the free supercharging and premium connectivity too. LOL, still getting those software updates as well, that's kind of amazing.

I intend to be just like you with my ‘23 model S plaid and my cybertruck so, I I’m taking notes. I don’t know how long I’ll live but I plan to have both of them until I quit.

The only way that I won’t have my plaid “as is” is if I come up with something that I want to put it’s guts in as part of a rest-o-mod sometime down the road. I don’t know if there’s any old car that I would want to update that can handle the power, so it’s probably unlikely.

You’re the only person that I’ve communicated with directly who has updated a battery pack so this is very valuable intel! I’m hoping to get to the point where getting a 500 mile battery pack in both of them will be a trivial matter. Thank you so much!

 

[REM]

One of my points is using the 'recommended' defaults for charging - you're never offered 100%. 20% less of something is significant.

The navigation systems does not use this assumption - it assumes 100%. The trend in travel superchargers is 80% is full.

And people ARE getting stranded in EV's, perhaps this is an element causing confusion to the everyday customer.

What would be truly transparent and actually clear, is for the Navigation to report the ACTUAL range based on the ACTUAL current battery charge.

...As you are ACTUALLY going to drive that distance.

It knows the actual battery charge level - and can easily calculate it projects based on that.

The algorithm that predicts your range is crazy accurate, and super complex. It factors in elevation, weather, wind, temperature, how loud you typically listen to music in your truck, whether or not the headlights need to be on, and much, much more.

I suspect you have your battery indicator set to "miles". If you do, go ahead and rip that band-aid off and change it to 'percentage'. Treat your car the same as you would your phone.

 

[CyberGus]

Treat your car the same as you would your phone.

 

[dalton108]

The algorithm that predicts your range is crazy accurate, and super complex. It factors in elevation, weather, wind, temperature, how loud you typically listen to music in your truck, whether or not the headlights need to be on, and much, much more.

I suspect you have your battery indicator set to "miles". If you do, go ahead and rip that band-aid off and change it to 'percentage'. Treat your car the same as you would your phone.

Yep, I do pretty much measure distance now in parsecs— err uhh, I mean percent of battery it will cost me.

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