dalton108
Well-known member
- First Name
- Dalton
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2020
- Threads
- 132
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- 4,071
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- 8,222
- Location
- USA
- Vehicles
- ‘24 FS/CB; ‘24 MX; ‘23 MS PLAID (Prior: ‘20-MY; ‘21-M3P) (Also: ‘14-FJ; ‘21-C8)
- Occupation
- Lawyer
- Thread starter
- #1
I’m biased. I was trained to drive assertively and I believe that is the best policy. I hate it when people try to be polite while driving! IE someone is trying to go across three lanes of traffic from a strip mall to get across to the left-hand turn, or you’re making a left-hand turn and you don’t have the right way and somebody wants to create it for you - these types of things drive me bananas!!!
Just follow the rules and drive your own vehicle! If you’re following the rules (not including the speed limit) I will know how to operate.
I know that we have some folks here who would like to drive slow, use extreme caution, and concern themselves with whether other vehicle operators would approve of their maneuvers (eww). I think this is nonsense. This video is great and if you have the time please watch it in total if you’re into startups, technology or the philosophical underpinnings of Silicon Valley. But for the instant conversation it begins at about 31:50 and begins with a question about whether there are Waymos in New York City here’s the relevant transcript:
—-
That seems insane.
Why?
I mean, when was the last time you were in New York?
Look, here’s the thing about New York. The cars drive. If you’re in a taxi in New York, you’re inches from the car next to you. But it turns out a self-driving car can calculate the distance much, much, much better than people because it has these amazing lidars that just sit there and tell you with millimeter accuracy how far these other things away. When it comes to precision, robots win.
Okay. But part of the driving demeanor of New York City is an aggressiveness.
Correct.
That defines how you move around in New York.
Same in San Francisco. Maybe not quite as extreme.
That might be true. But it’s not as extreme like in New York. You kind of got to run some red lights to get anywhere. Even if you’re turning left or whatever, it’s just kind of how it is. People are walking around everywhere in a way that it’s not the same in San Francisco.
We learned this the hard way early on in Google Chaffur, which is on highways. If you stick in San Francisco to the posted highway speed, you become an obstacle. In many, many cases people exceed the speed by 10 to 15 miles per hour. If you roll with the traffic, you’re generally safer than if you slow everybody else down and force them to drive around you.
We also learned at four-way intersections early on: if you want to be polite and wait until it’s your turn, you’re never going to go. When it’s your turn, you have to inch forward aggressively into the intersection to signal to other drivers, now it’s my turn, I’m going to take it. Stay away. That’s what’s happening. You’re constantly communicating with other traffic. Same is true for lane changes and so on.
When you look at Waymo over the years, it has become much more “aggressive” to make it safer, right?
If you drive overly carefully, you don’t add to public safety, you just slow everything down. So if you look at self-driving cars today, and many people remarked this to me, I’m obviously not in the team anymore, but I believe that the Waymo car has become significantly more assertive, for sure. And it’s probably got sick of getting cut off.
I think traffic works in a certain way and you have to adjust to the way traffic works. When you go to Manhattan, you have to adjust even more. Obviously, if you go to Bangalore, you have to adjust because of different traffic. You go to Boston.
So you don’t think it doesn’t matter the city is your point.
I think you can adjust to any kind of traffic rules. Yeah, you’ve come full circle from “there’s no way this thing’s going to work.” Most extreme is, go to India where the size of the vehicle determines the right away. If you have the big bus, you go first. If you re the smallest vehicle, you go last. Yes, all that can be learned.
Fascinating.
[Emphasis added.]
—
Here's the full video. Again, highly recommend watching the whole thing - if you have the time/interest. He also throws just a bit of shade at Tesla/Elon about vision only.
Just follow the rules and drive your own vehicle! If you’re following the rules (not including the speed limit) I will know how to operate.
I know that we have some folks here who would like to drive slow, use extreme caution, and concern themselves with whether other vehicle operators would approve of their maneuvers (eww). I think this is nonsense. This video is great and if you have the time please watch it in total if you’re into startups, technology or the philosophical underpinnings of Silicon Valley. But for the instant conversation it begins at about 31:50 and begins with a question about whether there are Waymos in New York City here’s the relevant transcript:
—-
That seems insane.
Why?
I mean, when was the last time you were in New York?
Look, here’s the thing about New York. The cars drive. If you’re in a taxi in New York, you’re inches from the car next to you. But it turns out a self-driving car can calculate the distance much, much, much better than people because it has these amazing lidars that just sit there and tell you with millimeter accuracy how far these other things away. When it comes to precision, robots win.
Okay. But part of the driving demeanor of New York City is an aggressiveness.
Correct.
That defines how you move around in New York.
Same in San Francisco. Maybe not quite as extreme.
That might be true. But it’s not as extreme like in New York. You kind of got to run some red lights to get anywhere. Even if you’re turning left or whatever, it’s just kind of how it is. People are walking around everywhere in a way that it’s not the same in San Francisco.
We learned this the hard way early on in Google Chaffur, which is on highways. If you stick in San Francisco to the posted highway speed, you become an obstacle. In many, many cases people exceed the speed by 10 to 15 miles per hour. If you roll with the traffic, you’re generally safer than if you slow everybody else down and force them to drive around you.
We also learned at four-way intersections early on: if you want to be polite and wait until it’s your turn, you’re never going to go. When it’s your turn, you have to inch forward aggressively into the intersection to signal to other drivers, now it’s my turn, I’m going to take it. Stay away. That’s what’s happening. You’re constantly communicating with other traffic. Same is true for lane changes and so on.
When you look at Waymo over the years, it has become much more “aggressive” to make it safer, right?
If you drive overly carefully, you don’t add to public safety, you just slow everything down. So if you look at self-driving cars today, and many people remarked this to me, I’m obviously not in the team anymore, but I believe that the Waymo car has become significantly more assertive, for sure. And it’s probably got sick of getting cut off.
I think traffic works in a certain way and you have to adjust to the way traffic works. When you go to Manhattan, you have to adjust even more. Obviously, if you go to Bangalore, you have to adjust because of different traffic. You go to Boston.
So you don’t think it doesn’t matter the city is your point.
I think you can adjust to any kind of traffic rules. Yeah, you’ve come full circle from “there’s no way this thing’s going to work.” Most extreme is, go to India where the size of the vehicle determines the right away. If you have the big bus, you go first. If you re the smallest vehicle, you go last. Yes, all that can be learned.
Fascinating.
[Emphasis added.]
—
Here's the full video. Again, highly recommend watching the whole thing - if you have the time/interest. He also throws just a bit of shade at Tesla/Elon about vision only.
Sponsored
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