Will FSD full self driving get priority on deliveries?

[BayouCityBob]

Agreed. As an Ontologist, I was working on integrating deep knowledge models and ML to support “Explainable AI”, and then I retired, so I know that people are working on it but not whether Tesla is. From what I gather Tesla is not keen on deep knowledge models so we should probably not do more than hope for this kind of explanation.

I confess to understanding very little about these models and how they work, but I find it ironic that the inability to answer a fabulously ordinary question like "why did the vehicle slow down?" may be the catalyst for people to begin questioning the reliability and acceptability of using AI models. Few people seem interested in knowing why models say "those are pre-cancerous lesions" or "credit should be denied" or a social media post is "likely disinformation." When it comes to "phantom slow-downs" on the freeway, otoh ... Elon's got some 'splaining to do.

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[charliemagpie]

I guess if we were on public transport, the things prop and stop and stutter, it may warrant a glance up, but we quickly get back to what we were doing.

We don't get an explanation from the driver.

I guess soon enough, we won't care about knowing what the car is doing either.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I confess to understanding very little about these models and how they work, but I find it ironic that the inability to answer a fabulously ordinary question like "why did the vehicle slow down?" may be the catalyst for people to begin questioning the reliability and acceptability of using AI models. Few people seem interested in knowing why models say "those are pre-cancerous lesions" or "credit should be denied" or a social media post is "likely disinformation." When it comes to "phantom slow-downs" on the freeway, otoh ... Elon's got some 'splaining to do.

The reason that Explainable AI came into being was that ML was good (once tweaked) at prediction, or clustering, but could not provide an explanation (obvious if you know anything about matrix algebra and eigenvectors/eigenvalues), but was being used more and more by the military. It was ARPA/DARPA that started paying for Explainable AI research. With this as a proviso, yes, you are very much correct that when it comes to something your life depends on you want to know why a decision was made or why an action was taken. If you simply change a training label into a URI that points to an ontology you can then dive into that ontology to answer questions if need be. Trying to get data scientists to make this simple swap was like trying to boil the ocean.

 

[ecotrials]

To my reading what you have quoted is exactly what @Crissa is saying…that the price we were quoted is what we will pay plus any options we choose, taxes, and fees. I am unclear how you read it differently but that is how I read it.

Of course, that is based entirely on the paragraphs you quoted. We know that Tesla has said that if their costs go up (or down) they will have to modulate their pricing, but I have always believed that they will do their best to adhere to the original quotes.

I, too, read this to mean that the quoted price does not include other options. In other words, if you signed up for the top of the line offering with FSD for $76,990, that was not going to be your final price because of other things outside that price include tax, license, delivery fees and whatever other options you choose. They did not want customers ordering the truck saying "I ordered the truck for $76,990 and now Tesla wants $85,420.69 after deducting my $100 deposit. That wasn't my agreement."

To me it reads like CYA in the case where someone signs up for the pre-order without understanding or reading the agreement.

 

[ecotrials]

I like to think that the early priority will be on hyper-robust vehicles that have great range, performance, features and towing capability, not to mention build quality. Trucks that impress truck buyers and journalists. Rigs that clearly convey to GM and Ford that this is not a level playing field, and they'll have to up their game to keep playing.

Sure, if they need to, Tesla can play the short game and just go for margins, which might include prioritizing FSD deliveries. Cover those first consumer deliveries with all kinds of awesome sauce, though, and Tesla will be playing the long game. Would love to see that.

Plus... having FSD purchasers using this brand new experience gets even more data fed back to the FSD crew from a completely new vehicle. So more data plus cash pretty much straight to the bottom line. Woohoo!
Paul

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I, too, read this to mean that the quoted price does not include other options. In other words, if you signed up for the top of the line offering with FSD for $76,990, that was not going to be your final price because of other things outside that price include tax, license, delivery fees and whatever other options you choose. They did not want customers ordering the truck saying "I ordered the truck for $76,990 and now Tesla wants $85,420.69 after deducting my $100 deposit. That wasn't my agreement."

To me it reads like CYA in the case where someone signs up for the pre-order without understanding or reading the agreement.

Although I knew that destination, taxes, and registration would be added to the cost of my Model Y it was still a chunk of change on top of the quoted price and it was a shock to get an $800 bill for registration this year.

 

[mhaze]

FSD Beta v11.4.4

One run I often make thru the city typical required two or three manual takeovers in each direction.

11.4.4 for that route has required zero.

 

[kbolt]

I could see it going both ways. On the one hand they get higher margins for those who opted in for FSD. On the other hand they don't have a huge dataset on how FSD handles with the Cybertruck.

Personally, I would like FSD orders to have priority since I opted in. When I first got FSD beta in October of '21 I would use it once after every update for a couple of minutes just to see how it was progressing. Now I use it at least once on every drive that I do because it's so convenient.

Practically speaking, it might be best for them to just go in order of reservations for a couple of reasons. First, they won't have backlash from the media about favoring certain customers. Two, if they do that their margins will appear to drop per vehicle when they get through that list and that will be another point of media FUD. And D, they can slowly gather data on FSD use by slowing the rate of increase of the fleet of a new vehicle.

 

[WormtownKris]

I do not think that whether you toggled on FSD when you reserved will matter at all. It is just an expression of interest, not a contract to purchase.
Chad might be able to afford the dual motor, but now he cannot afford an extra $7,000 for FSD, even at the opening night discount. Brad might have just plain missed the option, and he's been afraid to change his reservation because of fears he will lose his place in line. Vlad might win $25,000 on a scratch ticket the week before he's invited to configure, so now he's going to purchase FSD which he did NOT sign up for, but at 2023/24/25 prices. And Tad might be able to get $7,500 Fed and $7,500 State tax credits if his CT costs $79,999, but with lose that $15,000 if he adds the $8k FSD he clicked on in 2/2021.
If they go by who did or did not click on a check box several years ago, it will be arbitrary and will not necessarily capture the most profit.
Do Chad and Tad go to the back of the line if each decides not to purchase FSD? CAN Tesla even give a conditional invite- you can configure, but you HAVE to select the manditory FSD option? Brad and Vlad would pay the most for FSD, but since they didn't click it originally, they're pushed further towards the back than the much later reservations who are getting FSD for only $7k, $8k or $10k?
It just seems too complicated and ripe for sour grapes if FSD were a mandate for completing the delivery process. Just my opinion.

 

[Crissa]

Tesla can prioritize deliveries in any way they want to, as long as it doesn't penalize any protected categories.



They have in the past prioritized FSD sales, but then when that was discovered by the public, they changed their system again. So, it was probably not intentional.

-Crissa

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

FSD Beta v11.4.4

One run I often make thru the city typical required two or three manual takeovers in each direction.

11.4.4 for that route has required zero.

I found 11.4.4 to do crazy stuff no other beta has done. I won’t use it again until 11.4.5.

 

[Greshnab]

I found 11.4.4 to do crazy stuff no other beta has done. I won’t use it again until 11.4.5.

for those that haven't tried it yet.. any examples?

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

for those that haven't tried it yet.. any examples?

I test drive the same route and on a straight section of 45 mph road with no intersections, bridges, pedestrians, etc FSD suddenly braked hard. I have had this happen on the highway but never on a city street and have never had an issue like this on my test route.

 

[Crissa]

I test drive the same route and on a straight section of 45 mph road with no intersections, bridges, pedestrians, etc FSD suddenly braked hard. I have had this happen on the highway but never on a city street and have never had an issue like this on my test route.

...which means it thought it saw something. Really, it needs to have a high resist explanation of any braking or sharp slowing event so we know why. For those cases where it saw something (that was actually there) the user did not.

-Crissa

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