Help needed: detached garage poweshare, how do I meet code?

[rjosal]

For a detached garage, the gateway needs to be in the house. That’s all good, but apparently there is a code that makes it not possible to put the charger itself inside the garage, where the car is. So, car to house is no-go. Has anyone found a code way around this? What exactly is this code, is there any loophole?

I tried to dig deep in a conversation with the electrician and all they can do is put it on the outside. Since it’s a garage it’s surrounded by concrete except the back corner so mounting there is 75-100’ to reach the car charge port by going under the garage (too far for 24’ cable)

Do I just have to pay a bunch of money for a non working solution to code, and then pay someone else under the table to redo it ignoring code?

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[mongo]

For a detached garage, the gateway needs to be in the house. That’s all good, but apparently there is a code that makes it not possible to put the charger itself inside the garage, where the car is. So, car to house is no-go. Has anyone found a code way around this? What exactly is this code, is there any loophole?

I tried to dig deep in a conversation with the electrician and all they can do is put it on the outside. Since it’s a garage it’s surrounded by concrete except the back corner so mounting there is 75-100’ to reach the car charge port by going under the garage (too far for 24’ cable)

Do I just have to pay a bunch of money for a non working solution to code, and then pay someone else under the table to redo it ignoring code?

What code is the problem? Michigan installer didn't mention any issues with that setup.
Do you already have power to the garage so the concern is having two services to a structure? My understanding is the EV charger is a branch circuit not a service, but I could have misunderstood.
Even with a single feed, it should be possible to subpanel the garage and connect the WC there and feed the garage from the Gateway. Unless you want non-backed up loads in the garage.

 

[carsly]

Not a problem in NJ, but I do have a sub panel in the detached garage. Charger was permitted and inspected. What part of the code are you having issues with?

 

[Woodrick]

For a detached garage, the gateway needs to be in the house. That’s all good, but apparently there is a code that makes it not possible to put the charger itself inside the garage, where the car is. So, car to house is no-go. Has anyone found a code way around this? What exactly is this code, is there any loophole?

I tried to dig deep in a conversation with the electrician and all they can do is put it on the outside. Since it’s a garage it’s surrounded by concrete except the back corner so mounting there is 75-100’ to reach the car charge port by going under the garage (too far for 24’ cable)

Do I just have to pay a bunch of money for a non working solution to code, and then pay someone else under the table to redo it ignoring code?

Let's get some terms right first, it may make a big difference in this case.
The charger is in the vehicle.
Those things that go on the walls are generically called Electrical Vehicle Supply Equipment (EVSE) and are basically intelligent extension cords.

I'm not sure why an outlet in your detached garage would be a code violation. It may be because of the concrete and actually getting service to the garage. Does the garage have any power now?

Was this a Tesla certified installer?

 

[DfibRL8R]

I was informed by my Tesla certified installer in Virginia that the code issue for garages is that you can't have a circuit feeding the detached garage directly from a panel in the main house. Rather, you need to have a subpanel in the garage with circuits to the garage coming off that (which is my existing set up with a Tesla charge in service since 2013). As a result to integrate the PowerShare, the installer recommended installing the gateway in the garage to replace existing subpanel and put the existing circuits and charger circuit in the gateway. The main house panel would feed gateway, then refeed a subpanel in the main house from the lugs in gateway (that will now be the backup panel for critical household circuits).

 

[mongo]

I was informed by my Tesla certified installer in Virginia that the code issue for garages is that you can't have a circuit feeding the detached garage directly from a panel in the main house. Rather, you need to have a subpanel in the garage with circuits to the garage coming off that (which is my existing set up with a Tesla charge in service since 2013). As a result to integrate the PowerShare, the installer recommended installing the gateway in the garage to replace existing subpanel and put the existing circuits and charger circuit in the gateway. The main house panel would feed gateway, then refeed a subpanel in the main house from the lugs in gateway (that will now be the backup panel for critical household circuits).

...
Any reason you can't have the garage backed up by Powershare due to loads out there?
If not, feed the Cybertruck from garage subpanel, put Gateway between main panel and garage, and add a feed from Gateway to a house backed up load subpanel.

 

[Woodrick]

I was informed by my Tesla certified installer in Virginia that the code issue for garages is that you can't have a circuit feeding the detached garage directly from a panel in the main house. Rather, you need to have a subpanel in the garage with circuits to the garage coming off that (which is my existing set up with a Tesla charge in service since 2013). As a result to integrate the PowerShare, the installer recommended installing the gateway in the garage to replace existing subpanel and put the existing circuits and charger circuit in the gateway. The main house panel would feed gateway, then refeed a subpanel in the main house from the lugs in gateway (that will now be the backup panel for critical household circuits).

If I'm reading correctly, that means that you have to run another set of wires from the garage back to the main house. All those loads that are protected, will effectively go over what may be a long run for normal power.
From house to gateway to garage back to house to subpanel to device.

 

[DfibRL8R]

If I'm reading correctly, that means that you have to run another set of wires from the garage back to the main house. All those loads that are protected, will effectively go over what may be a long run for normal power.
From house to gateway to garage back to house to subpanel to device.

Yes, that's the proposal.

 

[DfibRL8R]

...
Any reason you can't have the garage backed up by Powershare due to loads out there?
If not, feed the Cybertruck from garage subpanel, put Gateway between main panel and garage, and add a feed from Gateway to a house backed up load subpanel.

They looked at that option but the current garage subpanel is undersized (installed back before I owned any Teslas and the feed is smaller than I'd like). Proposal ups the feed to the garage to 100amps and replaces the garage subpanel with the gateway.

 

[mongo]

They looked at that option but the current garage subpanel is undersized (installed back before I owned any Teslas and the feed is smaller than I'd like). Proposal ups the feed to the garage to 100amps and replaces the garage subpanel with the gateway.

So using two runs instead of upgrading the garage panel?

 

[DfibRL8R]

So using two runs instead of upgrading the garage panel?

Yes, that is what was proposed after they looked at the overall situation. I think your option would work but when I draw it out I think there is just as much wiring required to feed and then return from the garage (add 100amp feed, have a return feed back to the sub in the house -v- return feed back to the gateway in the house from the truck). Am I missing something?

 

[mongo]

Yes, that is what was proposed after they looked at the overall situation. I think your option would work but when I draw it out I think there is just as much wiring required to feed and then return from the garage (add 100amp feed, have a return feed back to the sub in the house -v- return feed back to the gateway in the house from the truck). Am I missing something?

UWC backwards gateway through garage subpanel, so It only needs one (bidirectional) run to the garage.
Gateway - 100A - subpanel- [UWC, garage loads]
\- 100A (or feed through lugs) - house loads subpanel

 

[DfibRL8R]

UWC backwards gateway through garage subpanel, so It only needs one (bidirectional) run to the garage.
Gateway - 100A - subpanel- [UWC, garage loads]
\- 100A (or feed through lugs) - house loads subpanel

Ah OK, so that bidirectional feed/return set-up would then save on wiring cost. I'll run that scenario by the installer. Thanks for clarifying. Perhaps they were planning on using/leaving the existing (I think it's 60 amp) feed to bring power back to the house subpanel for critical circuits.

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