Dual Charge Ports

[Crissa]

I've always wanted to ride a unicorn. I guess I can settle for driving one.

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Musk said they would have adaptors at the charge stations. To participate in the $7.5B government subsidies on building out the EV charger network, they have to be able to charge any brand vehicle. Requiring people buy an adaptor seems like it's at least against the spirit of that.

Well, there will only be a couple adapters at each site - a couple stations with an extra cable, basically. This is what they did in Europe. Buying an adapter lets you skip around that restriction and access stations that haven't been updated yet.

Also, if they've done the work to make it work one way, they'll know how to make it work both ways - so there will be official adapters for Tesla to use other network CCS stations. For right now, there are more locations with CCS than Supercharger; tho there are more Superchargers than CCS chargers.

-Crissa

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[HaulingAss]

I feel ya. I think he might take a few things a little too far.

That's what most people thought when he said cars shouldn't have gas engines!

 

[ldjessee]

Well, if they do not provide J1772 or Chademo, then I will not be able to visit the many, many supercharger locations with my Leaf...

Which I have babied when charging it. After buying it in 2017, still have 12 health bars on it, so crossing my fingers for another 4 years as our 'town' car.

 

[Ogre]

Zero, Arcimoto charge much too slowly to use Superchargers

I'd add the Chevy bolt to that list as well

I don't think they have to support *every* other manufacturer, I suspect just supporting CCS will be fine. The only bit I heard for certain is that funding is not available if you only charge one brand of car.

Well, there will only be a couple adapters at each site - a couple stations with an extra cable, basically. This is what they did in Europe. Buying an adapter lets you skip around that restriction and access stations that haven't been updated yet.

If they do it this way, then queueing at a crowded station will get quite odd and possibly contentious. Would certainly encourage people to buy their own adaptors if they use Superchargers a lot.

Also, if they've done the work to make it work one way, they'll know how to make it work both ways - so there will be official adapters for Tesla to use other network CCS stations. For right now, there are more locations with CCS than Supercharger; tho there are more Superchargers than CCS chargers.

If I could get a CCS adaptor for a decent price, I would. I don't need it often, but there are definitely times when I've wished I had one.

 

[HaulingAss]

I've always wanted to ride a unicorn. I guess I can settle for driving one.



Musk said they would have adaptors at the charge stations. To participate in the $7.5B government subsidies on building out the EV charger network, they have to be able to charge any brand vehicle. Requiring people buy an adaptor seems like it's at least against the spirit of that.



I fully expect participating in the above mentioned government funding Tesla would need to charge the same rate to everyone (presumably Supercharger for life folks are exempt). Otherwise a company could support everyone in theory and just price non-Tesla owners out of the market.

Tesla is talking about some kind of time-based fees to discourage people with slow charging cars from camping the Superchargers. Per minute billing is illegal, but it's probably possible to charge a big fee after a certain amount of time at the charge station.

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I'm quite certain Tesla is going to scoop up as much of that $7.5b EV charger station funding that they possibly can.

Charging by the minute isn't illegal, at least not anywhere I'm aware of. In fact, Tesla charges by the minute in states that have made it illegal for them to sell electricity by the kWh.

Too many pointless laws.

 

[tmeyer3]

I fully expect participating in the above mentioned government funding Tesla would need to charge the same rate to everyone

The problem is more that Tesla is quickly shifting to 300+kW DC charging. Most non Tesla vehicles can't handle over 100. The vehicle determines the maximum normally and the charger just gives what it can. While they can offer it, few will be able to actually make full use of superchargers. Even the new mach-e maxes out at 150, but it plummets HARD at 80%.... Like 20kW hard. It doesn't scale charging speed smartly like Tesla. It just assumes you SHOULD be safe until 80, then bottlenecks the crap out of you until 100. Lazy software.
Meanwhile, most superchargers are already capable of 250kW at most locations.
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OMG, I just realized you meant charge money, hahaha. Well I'm not deleting this after writing it.

 

[tmeyer3]

Well, if they do not provide J1772 or Chademo, then I will not be able to visit the many, many supercharger locations with my Leaf...

Which I have babied when charging it. After buying it in 2017, still have 12 health bars on it, so crossing my fingers for another 4 years as our 'town' car.

What's the maximum charging on your leaf? 40, 50kW? That's what my garage charger does. They are superchargers, not chargers. Leaf might be best off charged at home tbh

 

[Crissa]

Well, Zero maxes out at 12kW. That's a bit slower than a Bolt! A Bolt road-charges in about 30min, you could only get about 50 highway miles on a Zero SR/S.

Charging by the minute isn't illegal, at least not anywhere I'm aware of. In fact, Tesla charges by the minute in states that have made it illegal for them to sell electricity by the kWh.

California banned the per-minute because that was causing situations where cheaper cars were being charged massively more than expensive cars to charge. Like, my Zero can cost 10x more to charge. Per-minute doesn't make sense for non-busy or higher-power stations anyhow.

The only places it's illegal to charge per kWh are where that's reserved for power monopolies.

What's the maximum charging on your leaf? 40, 50kW? That's what my garage charger does. They are superchargers, not chargers. Leaf might be best off charged at home tbh

While that's true, it doesn't matter when you need slightly more range, or you can't charge at home. If I go to San Jose, I need to put a kWh into my bike to get back.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

The problem is more that Tesla is quickly shifting to 300+kW DC charging. Most non Tesla vehicles can't handle over 100.

Yep.

I think this is why Tesla wants to add a time based fee in addition to the per kWh fee.

They apparently can't charge per minute, but there are ways around this limit. They could also cut off power and assess idle fees at particularly busy stations. I could see Tesla putting a hard limit of 45 minutes of charging at a crazy busy station.

 

[Quicksilver]

I watch a lot of Tesla related videos on YouTube and a couple of the talking heads have made the same point about Tesla allowing all EV's to use their chargers.
In order to use the Tesla charger they will have to have the Tesla app on their phone.
That's kind of like putting a Chevy logo on your Ford. Every time they charge they will see the Tesla logo and may get some kind of push over their phone.
They may pay a fee or a higher rate for the electricity they buy.
They may or may not be able to charge their vehicle as fast as a Tesla charges. Imagine watching several Teslas arrive, charge and depart while you are charging your vehicle.
Sooner or later you are going to ask yourself why the hell you're not driving a Tesla.
And there will be personal interaction with Tesla owners while you wait. One can only stand so many condescending looks. Tesla owners will always extol the virtues of their vehicle to the unwashed masses.
You can't buy advertising like that (even if Tesla bought advertising).
Elon may be crazy but he is crazy like a fox.

 

[Ogre]

They may pay a fee or a higher rate for the electricity they buy.

This is unlikely due to regulations/ conditions to collect funding.

They may or may not be able to charge their vehicle as fast as a Tesla charges.

This is almost certain. Not due to the Superchargers though, nobody benefits from cars hogging up the chargers. Very few non-Teslas support higher charge speeds. And many of them taper off charging faster than the Tesla. Most non-Teslas have bigger batteries which adds even more to charge time.

 

[tmeyer3]

Tesla owners will always extol the virtues of their vehicle to the unwashed masses.

 

[ldjessee]

What's the maximum charging on your leaf? 40, 50kW? That's what my garage charger does. They are superchargers, not chargers. Leaf might be best off charged at home tbh

2017 Nissan Leaf charges at 100kw via Chademo.
Sure, not as fast as Teslas, but still faster than plugged in at home.

 

[Ogre]

I think it's the Chevy Bolt that stuck charging at 50kW in a car manufactured in 2022.

 

[Crissa]

It doesn't really matter if it's limited to 55kW, it still gets a hundred miles in like thirty minutes. That's fine. Not great, but it's reasonable.

-Crissa

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