An encounter with a fireman

[IraS]

As a firefighter with 49 years experience (including Chief of Department) and also a Tesla owner (MY since 2020), I can see both sides.

On the fire department side, a lot can be solved by education. Fire Departments have 100+ years of dealing with ICE vehicle fires, and in practical terms, less than a decade dealing with EVs. Manufacturers (not just EVs) are to blame. They put out a product with new technology, new risks and no answers for what to do when something goes wrong. Then when something does go wrong, who do people call? The Fire Department. And firefighters are left to figure out a solution. Things are a little better now for EV responses than they were 4-5 years ago, with ERGs and some training out there. But still no real good answers for dealing with EV battery fires and the aftermath.

One thing that still frustrates me is that manufacturers still do some dumb things that could be avoided if they spoke with the people who have to deal with their products when things go wrong. One very simple example is the rear doors on my MY. If you lose 12V (really 15V) power, you can't open the rear doors from the inside. So, Tesla's "solution" - put in a manual release. Great idea, except in order to get to it, you have to know to go to the rear door pocket, remove the rubber liner, open a small hatch (hope you've got a pocket knife or screwdriver), and the find the loop to manually pull the release. Just one example of a stupid "solution".

I try to educate people (firefighters in particular) whenever I can. These issues with EVs will get ironed out, and it won't take all that long. One thing I try to hit on: If Henry Ford built electric vehicles 100+ years ago instead of ICE vehicles, all of the safety issues would have been resolved long ago and everyone would feel safe. Then if a few years ago, some company started building vehicles with ICE technology, people would be up in arms: You're going to put a car with 20 gallons of explosive gasoline in your garage - you're crazy! What if you get rear-ended - your car will explode with you in it!

We're in a transition phase, and it's going to take some time.

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[HaulingAss]

As a firefighter with 49 years experience (including Chief of Department) and also a Tesla owner (MY since 2020), I can see both sides.

On the fire department side, a lot can be solved by education. Fire Departments have 100+ years of dealing with ICE vehicle fires, and in practical terms, less than a decade dealing with EVs. Manufacturers (not just EVs) are to blame. They put out a product with new technology, new risks and no answers for what to do when something goes wrong.

Where did you get the idea that manufacturers put out a product with new technology, new risks and no answers for what to do when something goes wrong? Tesla released their earliest “Emergency Responder Guide” (the official document providing best practices for first responders on high-voltage systems, accidents/extrication, and battery fires) with the release of the original Roadster back in 2009 (17 years ago!). Every new model since then Tesla has released updated and model specific Emergency Responder Guides and made them publicly available on their website at no charge.

The latest versions are always available at tesla.com/firstresponders.

If the managers of first responder units failed to educate their crews, using the manufacturer provided knowledge, the blame lands squarely on the shoulders of management, not automaker management, that of the first responders. I'm curious why you think the blame lands on the shoulders of the automakers? They are the ones that made the detailed, model specific first respond available to first responders and offered many more hands on resources at request.

Then when something does go wrong, who do people call? The Fire Department. And firefighters are left to figure out a solution. Things are a little better now for EV responses than they were 4-5 years ago, with ERGs and some training out there. But still no real good answers for dealing with EV battery fires and the aftermath.

Wow! That's quite a take coming from an ex Fire Department Chief with 49 years of firefighting experience! You don't figure out a solution in real time without having trained first for potential scenarios. For 17 years Tesla has been providing specific, detailed information on how to deal with expected accidents, including detailed procedures for safely disabling the high-voltage battery pack, handling damaged vehicles, and responding to lithium-ion battery fires (e.g., flooding with large amounts of water to cool cells, monitoring for re-ignition risks, etc.).

In addition, Tesla regularly partners with fire departments, hosts or co-hosts dedicated training events, sends its own First Responder trainers and engineers to sessions, and supplies actual Tesla vehicles, prototypes, battery packs, Superchargers, Powerwalls, Megapacks, and other energy products for practical, immersive exercises. These activities focus on high-voltage shutdown procedures, extrication techniques, battery thermal events, charging infrastructure, and safe handling of Tesla’s full product ecosystem. Tesla's official first-responders page explicitly encourages departments to reach out for further support.

In my opinion, the blame for any lack of education lies squarely on the shoulders of those who manage first responders. Tesla is not their babysitter and has no authority over them! Only the first responders can determine what they should train for, and when it makes sense to do it. Tesla has resources available to help them with best practices and things specific to each model.

One thing that still frustrates me is that manufacturers still do some dumb things that could be avoided if they spoke with the people who have to deal with their products when things go wrong. One very simple example is the rear doors on my MY. If you lose 12V (really 15V) power, you can't open the rear doors from the inside. So, Tesla's "solution" - put in a manual release. Great idea, except in order to get to it, you have to know to go to the rear door pocket, remove the rubber liner, open a small hatch (hope you've got a pocket knife or screwdriver), and the find the loop to manually pull the release. Just one example of a stupid "solution".

Automobile design and safety is heavily regulated by government agencies including NHTSA. Surprisingly, they focus on making sure the doors do not open too easily in an accident! Tesla is not required to offer those wire pulls on the rear doors but they do it out of an abundance of caution. As a retired first responder, if you believe there is a better/safer way to do it, you should lobby NHTSA to implement improved guidance and regulations. It would be inefficient to lobby each manufacturer independently, every manufacturer should be held to the same standard.

I try to educate people (firefighters in particular) whenever I can. These issues with EVs will get ironed out, and it won't take all that long.

Well, it's been 17 years since Tesla released their first detailed manual for first responders. How much longer do you think it should take to educate all the first responders?

One thing I try to hit on: If Henry Ford built electric vehicles 100+ years ago instead of ICE vehicles, all of the safety issues would have been resolved long ago and everyone would feel safe.

Well, Ford didn't build any electric cars (beyond two prototypes), even though Henry Ford's wife Clara owned and drove a Detroit Electric Autocar as soon as 1909. So, you are claiming that's why there are still unresolved safety issues and people still feel unsafe? I don't feel unsafe (and I know quite a bit about the dangers). Gas cars are more unsafe.

I think the media has more responsibility for the fact that some people believe EVs are less safe than gas cars, not the manufacturers. First responders are not children, they need to take responsibility for educating themselves, Tesla has given them all the information and resources they need, including actual vehicles for demonstration, and encouraging them to reach out for hands on guidance and other resources.