An encounter with a fireman

[tinGLARE]

I'm a volunteer firefighter and I'm very disappointed in this response.

1. If you need to open a door and the door handle doesn't work, you cut the doors. This is a frequent occurrence with side impacts on all kinds of vehicles regardless of powertrain.
2. If you need to get under the hood to depower a car (which you do to disable the airbags for ICE, too) you pop it with a spreader or go old school and use a Halligan tool, a six foot hook, whatever. "Oh no, I can't release it remotely" is nonsense.
3. I guarantee you I can get into the charge port in under 10 seconds with some leverage but there's absolutely zero reason to do so. That would be like trying to get into the gas fill port on an ICE.
4. True story. This is dumb.
5. Maybe he has witnessed 3 EV fires. But most firefighters aren't good with statistics. NTSB data show hybrids have the highest rate of fires, then gasoline, and electric are the lowest. As in 60 times less likely to have a fire.

Look, the fire service is a lot of old-school dudes (gender neutral term but it is male dominated) that have a very fixed mindset. Change is scary and it's also a pain in the ass because it means we have to learn new tools and techniques and be able to apply them in unfortunate circumstances. But that's literally why the fire service exists. Fortunately, the old boys club is slowly changing...

im one of those "old school" dudes -- was a fireman/EMT in the 90s for 9 years. i was a tillerman ( best job in the fire service!). its not "old shool" dudes, its the current mentality of social media and inflated egos. id wager the fireman op talked to was in his 30s or late 20s. "old school" firemen usually dont walk up and talk like that to folks -- but this is a cybertruck, which is a polarizing object. fireman could have also been a liberal leaning person so throwing some bias in the mix.

EV or not, the cybertruck has windows that can be broken. if you can break open the window, and the cabin isnt crushed, you can pull someone out if the car is on fire. yes we have to stablilze the neck, but if a person is in a vehicle thats on fire, you pull em out as fast as you can. the fireman here was a bit over zealous and had a bone to pick with his distaste of the cybertruck.

back in the 90s, EVs were not a thing and i had my share of petrol based vehicle fires. lots of times the doors were jammed up, and you had to use a halligan or "old school" muscle to get them doors open if the car was jeopardized (on fire). otherwise, you support the neck/spine ( i would frequently be in the back seat as i was skinny enough and would stabilize) as personnel get the hurst hydraulics out to open the door ( now yall got battery operated gadgets, and even EV fire engines!!! -- fancy).

i would have loved to have been on this conversation with this fireperson....

Sponsored

 

[IraS]

As a firefighter with 49 years experience (including Chief of Department) and also a Tesla owner (MY since 2020), I can see both sides.

On the fire department side, a lot can be solved by education. Fire Departments have 100+ years of dealing with ICE vehicle fires, and in practical terms, less than a decade dealing with EVs. Manufacturers (not just EVs) are to blame. They put out a product with new technology, new risks and no answers for what to do when something goes wrong. Then when something does go wrong, who do people call? The Fire Department. And firefighters are left to figure out a solution. Things are a little better now for EV responses than they were 4-5 years ago, with ERGs and some training out there. But still no real good answers for dealing with EV battery fires and the aftermath.

One thing that still frustrates me is that manufacturers still do some dumb things that could be avoided if they spoke with the people who have to deal with their products when things go wrong. One very simple example is the rear doors on my MY. If you lose 12V (really 15V) power, you can't open the rear doors from the inside. So, Tesla's "solution" - put in a manual release. Great idea, except in order to get to it, you have to know to go to the rear door pocket, remove the rubber liner, open a small hatch (hope you've got a pocket knife or screwdriver), and the find the loop to manually pull the release. Just one example of a stupid "solution".

I try to educate people (firefighters in particular) whenever I can. These issues with EVs will get ironed out, and it won't take all that long. One thing I try to hit on: If Henry Ford built electric vehicles 100+ years ago instead of ICE vehicles, all of the safety issues would have been resolved long ago and everyone would feel safe. Then if a few years ago, some company started building vehicles with ICE technology, people would be up in arms: You're going to put a car with 20 gallons of explosive gasoline in your garage - you're crazy! What if you get rear-ended - your car will explode with you in it!

We're in a transition phase, and it's going to take some time.

 

[HaulingAss]

As a firefighter with 49 years experience (including Chief of Department) and also a Tesla owner (MY since 2020), I can see both sides.

On the fire department side, a lot can be solved by education. Fire Departments have 100+ years of dealing with ICE vehicle fires, and in practical terms, less than a decade dealing with EVs. Manufacturers (not just EVs) are to blame. They put out a product with new technology, new risks and no answers for what to do when something goes wrong.

Where did you get the idea that manufacturers put out a product with new technology, new risks and no answers for what to do when something goes wrong? Tesla released their earliest “Emergency Responder Guide” (the official document providing best practices for first responders on high-voltage systems, accidents/extrication, and battery fires) with the release of the original Roadster back in 2009 (17 years ago!). Every new model since then Tesla has released updated and model specific Emergency Responder Guides and made them publicly available on their website at no charge.

The latest versions are always available at tesla.com/firstresponders.

If the managers of first responder units failed to educate their crews, using the manufacturer provided knowledge, the blame lands squarely on the shoulders of management, not automaker management, that of the first responders. I'm curious why you think the blame lands on the shoulders of the automakers? They are the ones that made the detailed, model specific first respond available to first responders and offered many more hands on resources at request.

Then when something does go wrong, who do people call? The Fire Department. And firefighters are left to figure out a solution. Things are a little better now for EV responses than they were 4-5 years ago, with ERGs and some training out there. But still no real good answers for dealing with EV battery fires and the aftermath.

Wow! That's quite a take coming from an ex Fire Department Chief with 49 years of firefighting experience! You don't figure out a solution in real time without having trained first for potential scenarios. For 17 years Tesla has been providing specific, detailed information on how to deal with expected accidents, including detailed procedures for safely disabling the high-voltage battery pack, handling damaged vehicles, and responding to lithium-ion battery fires (e.g., flooding with large amounts of water to cool cells, monitoring for re-ignition risks, etc.).

In addition, Tesla regularly partners with fire departments, hosts or co-hosts dedicated training events, sends its own First Responder trainers and engineers to sessions, and supplies actual Tesla vehicles, prototypes, battery packs, Superchargers, Powerwalls, Megapacks, and other energy products for practical, immersive exercises. These activities focus on high-voltage shutdown procedures, extrication techniques, battery thermal events, charging infrastructure, and safe handling of Tesla’s full product ecosystem. Tesla's official first-responders page explicitly encourages departments to reach out for further support.

In my opinion, the blame for any lack of education lies squarely on the shoulders of those who manage first responders. Tesla is not their babysitter and has no authority over them! Only the first responders can determine what they should train for, and when it makes sense to do it. Tesla has resources available to help them with best practices and things specific to each model.

One thing that still frustrates me is that manufacturers still do some dumb things that could be avoided if they spoke with the people who have to deal with their products when things go wrong. One very simple example is the rear doors on my MY. If you lose 12V (really 15V) power, you can't open the rear doors from the inside. So, Tesla's "solution" - put in a manual release. Great idea, except in order to get to it, you have to know to go to the rear door pocket, remove the rubber liner, open a small hatch (hope you've got a pocket knife or screwdriver), and the find the loop to manually pull the release. Just one example of a stupid "solution".

Automobile design and safety is heavily regulated by government agencies including NHTSA. Surprisingly, they focus on making sure the doors do not open too easily in an accident! Tesla is not required to offer those wire pulls on the rear doors but they do it out of an abundance of caution. As a retired first responder, if you believe there is a better/safer way to do it, you should lobby NHTSA to implement improved guidance and regulations. It would be inefficient to lobby each manufacturer independently, every manufacturer should be held to the same standard.

I try to educate people (firefighters in particular) whenever I can. These issues with EVs will get ironed out, and it won't take all that long.

Well, it's been 17 years since Tesla released their first detailed manual for first responders. How much longer do you think it should take to educate all the first responders?

One thing I try to hit on: If Henry Ford built electric vehicles 100+ years ago instead of ICE vehicles, all of the safety issues would have been resolved long ago and everyone would feel safe.

Well, Ford didn't build any electric cars (beyond two prototypes), even though Henry Ford's wife Clara owned and drove a Detroit Electric Autocar as soon as 1909. So, you are claiming that's why there are still unresolved safety issues and people still feel unsafe? I don't feel unsafe (and I know quite a bit about the dangers). Gas cars are more unsafe.

I think the media has more responsibility for the fact that some people believe EVs are less safe than gas cars, not the manufacturers. First responders are not children, they need to take responsibility for educating themselves, Tesla has given them all the information and resources they need, including actual vehicles for demonstration, and encouraging them to reach out for hands on guidance and other resources.

Sponsored