Battery Replacement

CyberMoose

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The last thing I saw Elon was saying the batteries would be recyclable. I thought it would be because they would replace the pack. MAYBE the whole pack would bolt in? One reason I want this is because of the long life of the truck. The battery pack is a weak link. IF it was replaceable. the ownership of these would be much more valuable. in my opinion.
Replacing the battery wouldn't be just that simple. The structural battery pack is also the floor of the vehicle. If you look at the structural battery pack teaser from battery day. The top part of the shell around the battery cells looks like it has mounts for the seats, as well as all the connectors ready to just plug in for the seats and center console stuff.

If the battery pack was just bolted in, taking it out from the bottom would bring everything else with it. So you would need to take out the seats, carpeting, center console. You would basically need to take out most of the interior.

I'm hoping that Tesla makes it possible to just take the bottom half of the battery pack out when the car is lifted. It is also going to depend how the battery pack is connected to everything else. If the bottom part of the pack can be removed from the top half of the battery and the exoskeleton, without the top part of the battery being removed from the exoskeleton. A battery replacement might not be very challenging or time consuming. That's my hope but it's up to the Tesla engineers to figure out if that's the best option.
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lancethibault

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Then I'm afraid the CT isn't for you (nor is any other electric that I am aware of). As you note, the working range of the TriMotor is 0.8*500 = 400 and you won't get that at highway speed. In fact I think you are probably completely out of luck here because I don't think any OEM is going to push for a 600 mile electric truck - certainly not in these days of battery shortage. Eventually the technology may advance to that point but I think it will be a while
Unfortunately, this is pretty much the conclusion I've also come to terms with. I'm holding out hope until I see the final specs and warranties but I'm beginning my mental preparation for the let down. Tesla still might overdeliver.
 

ajdelange

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I don't know what your requirement is but it sounds as if you need a diesel with auxiliary tank that gives 800 mi range. Even the Semi doesn't offer that. Over delivering would mean 550 mile range for the 500 mile truck or something in that ballpark
 

lancethibault

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I don't know what your requirement is but it sounds as if you need a diesel with auxiliary tank that gives 800 mi range. Even the Semi doesn't offer that. Over delivering would mean 550 mile range for the 500 mile truck or something in that ballpark
I do need more EV range then I would need gas range, but I don't need 800 miles of gas/diesel range or even that much EV range.

My F150 works fine for my needs and it has about 480 miles of range now...maybe 430 if I don't run it down to fumes and refill when the gas light comes on with 50 miles to go. But gas stations are everywhere and filling is quick. Until the charging infrastructure catches up to the gas station infrastructure I need that EV capacity of 500+. Reason being, when I go hunt, I will arrive at my destination (Per ABRP) with 80% charge. That assumes I charge to 90% at the last charger closest to the destination. So....80% x 500 = 400. But I can't run it down to 0 either. If it's going to take me 10% to get to the charger I should leave with 20% to be safe and stay within the optimal battery charge state. So that gives me about 60% of the battery range to actually hunt with. That's about 300 miles. In theory that is plenty. I routinely drive 200 miles hunting (over the course of a week).

From a previous discussion from another forum member...

I recently started part full with 205 miles of estimated range, drove 136 miles to the next chargers, and had only 3 miles remaining, at reduced speeds! It was cold and raining so the car quickly told me my watts usage was too high to make that distance at that speed. I slowed to what it said and made it. Never ever assume you will ever go 500 miles when the rating is for 500.
He got 67% of his starting range. My driving conditions are going to be cold, and could be sloppy, and maybe have chains on the tires. 67% might be optimal for me, but using that number; 67% of my previously figured 300 miles available is 201 miles...which barely works for my 200 miles of hunting need, but it does work and I could adjust a little if necessary.

550 miles of range over delivery adds a little more wiggle room and would be nice, but again, I also want that 500 miles of range available for the next 15 years (battery degradation says no) or much better built out EV infrastructure, (which I won't know and can't predict at the time of purchase.) and I'd like it warrantied (which current Tesla's...nor any other EV have). Which brings me back to hope and prayers for battery range, battery degradation, and battery warranty over delivery.

I know this all sounds like a ridiculous desire. However, I would ask you to consider that my current truck meets these needs with ease. If Tesla is looking for converts, there are a lot men and women like me out there. I'm pulling for Tesla to deliver. As a lifetime pick-up truck owner, I never looked twice at EVs because, 1) they were all cars or some SUVs, 2) even those vehicles didn't have the range I would want and 3) I figured if a pick up truck was ever made it would be geared toward fleet vehicles that don't need a ton of range. Then CT was revealed and I was pumped when I saw the specs and pricing. 500+!!!! That's awesome!! I became less pumped the more I learned about about EVs actual ranges to keep the battery healthy, battery degradation and warranties, & insurance costs. Time will tell. Maybe Tesla is delaying any new info until they can meet the expectations of the ignorant pick-up truck owners like me who thought we were being shown a truck that required no compromise to switch from ICE.
 

Crissa

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The battery pack is a weak link.
Battery packs with active thermal management currently outlast their vehicles. Even for Leafs, there are more packs that outlasted their vehicles- so a common thing before the third-party packs were being made was to steal a pack from a newer car that had been recycled.

The battery pack is not the weak point.

-Crissa
 

Tinker71

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Replacing the battery wouldn't be just that simple. The structural battery pack is also the floor of the vehicle. If you look at the structural battery pack teaser from battery day. The top part of the shell around the battery cells looks like it has mounts for the seats, as well as all the connectors ready to just plug in for the seats and center console stuff.

If the battery pack was just bolted in, taking it out from the bottom would bring everything else with it. So you would need to take out the seats, carpeting, center console. You would basically need to take out most of the interior.

I'm hoping that Tesla makes it possible to just take the bottom half of the battery pack out when the car is lifted. It is also going to depend how the battery pack is connected to everything else. If the bottom part of the pack can be removed from the top half of the battery and the exoskeleton, without the top part of the battery being removed from the exoskeleton. A battery replacement might not be very challenging or time consuming. That's my hope but it's up to the Tesla engineers to figure out if that's the best option.
Several threaded insert into the epoxy mass aught to do it. The permeter cooling loops will need to be isolated from forces. I don't see why any fastener couldn't be accessed from the bottom. Tesla might have warranty repairs themselves. They will want to make battery removal/replacment
Battery packs with active thermal management currently outlast their vehicles. Even for Leafs, there are more packs that outlasted their vehicles- so a common thing before the third-party packs were being made was to steal a pack from a newer car that had been recycled.

The battery pack is not the weak point.

-Crissa
The battery may not be a weak point, but it is the one area with the greatest potential for improvement in the next 10 years.

BTW - I swear I did not push the post button. My thoughts above were incomplete. Work got in the way. Anyway the more I think about it, the structural pack will be removable (without removing the entire interior) and potentially upgradable. I cannot wait.
 

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Based on what I’ve read, the battery life should degrade slowly over time. From early vehicles, 400,000 miles with 80%+ battery capacity is not uncommon. That’s 20 years at my current use. In 20 years, if I need a truck with more than ~300 miles range, then I can sell it and buy a new truck.

Unless of course I find something I like better. If Tesla (or anyone) were to launch a smaller more efficient EV truck there is a good chance I’d jump ship for a cy-baby truck.
 

Ogre

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So that gives me about 60% of the battery range to actually hunt with. That's about 300 miles. In theory that is plenty. I routinely drive 200 miles hunting (over the course of a week).
This is well into hypothetical land, but the solar bed cover is supposed to deliver 15 miles of range per day or 30 miles if you deploy external “Wings”. So if you are spending a week on the road, you will recover 50-75 miles of range or up to 150 with the wings. Obviously that’s weather dependent, depends on how you park, etc. And… it’s all conjecture based on some passing comments by Musk. But there is a little hope here. Until they ship we won’t know exactly what the options are.

500+!!!! That's awesome!! I became less pumped the more I learned about about EVs actual ranges to keep the battery healthy, battery degradation and warranties, & insurance costs. Time will tell. Maybe Tesla is delaying any new info until they can meet the expectations of the ignorant pick-up truck owners like me who thought we were being shown a truck that required no compromise to switch from ICE.
I don’t think you need to worry overmuch about managing battery health. If you charge your truck up to 100% once a week, it’s not going to destroy the battery. It will degrade faster than if you charge it to 80% each time, but you are only spending a small amount of time at that level. What you really don’t want to do is charge it to 100% every single day.

Tesla is pretty stingy with information until they are ready to ship.
 

Diehard

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As Thinker71 mentioned Tesla may want to do warranty work on the battery and would not make life difficult for themselves. Sandy considers Mustang’s battery structural and that was easy to drop loosening a few bolts. I think by the time I get my CT Million mile batteries will be in CT. By then, even Anti gravity may be standard.
 

jonny

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for Leafs, there are more packs that outlasted their vehicles
I was thinking CT as the SS skin and other pieces of the truck are much better than A leaf. I feel a very slow to rust and heavy duty exoskeleton. As well, the electric motors make the battery pack that most people are going to full charge and discharge the weakest link. The kid that drives his tesla model s to Vegas and back as a way for people too scared to fly and dont want to drive. That shows the battery is the weak link. 3 batteries have been replaced and only a few other parts. The car runs fine and looks great with 100's of thousands of miles on it.
 

Ogre

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I was thinking CT as the SS skin and other pieces of the truck are much better than A leaf. I feel a very slow to rust and heavy duty exoskeleton. As well, the electric motors make the battery pack that most people are going to full charge and discharge the weakest link. The kid that drives his tesla model s to Vegas and back as a way for people too scared to fly and dont want to drive. That shows the battery is the weak link. 3 batteries have been replaced and only a few other parts. The car runs fine and looks great with 100's of thousands of miles on it.
From what I've seen, battery life on Tesla models is in the 100s of thousands of miles.

I want a truck mostly for camping and taking friends mountain biking. It'll get used for a lot more than that, but those are the primary reasons I want a *truck*.

I'm getting the 500 mile battery, if it degrades 80% after 400,000 miles (which seems typical), I'll still have 400 miles of range (~320 or so actual useful range). That puts me well into my 70s when my desire to go camping will likely be a lot less, and my mountain biking shuttle days will be much less common.

I have a strong suspicion that my battery will outlast my need for a truck.
 

John K

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I want the system to identify a bad cell and with an explosive charge, eject the bad cell.

Every July 4th, bad cells are purged. Patriotic and functional. For international, the appropriate patriotic day is used.

The above written in comic sans
 

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From what I've seen, battery life on Tesla models is in the 100s of thousands of miles.

I want a truck mostly for camping and taking friends mountain biking. It'll get used for a lot more than that, but those are the primary reasons I want a *truck*.

I'm getting the 500 mile battery, if it degrades 80% after 400,000 miles (which seems typical), I'll still have 400 miles of range (~320 or so actual useful range). That puts me well into my 70s when my desire to go camping will likely be a lot less, and my mountain biking shuttle days will be much less common.

I have a strong suspicion that my battery will outlast my need for a truck.
I fully agree with you. but I said the weak link. I didnt mean it was a poor design. it was (IMO) the part there would wear out first or the part that a driver would have the biggest impact on.
 

lancethibault

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From the guy that invented Lion batteries.

https://newatlas.com/energy/inventor-lithium-batteries-coating-capacity/

The article says...

The chemical treatment stabilized the structure to reduce the capacity loss that normally takes place during the first charging cycle. Ultimately, it provided better performance over the longer term, too, leading to a capacity retention of 93.2 percent over 250 charging cycles. The scientists see plenty of potential in the new battery design, especially where high-density storage is a priority, such as in the world of electric transportation.


If that's the case and we don't want to charge our CT3 to 100%, nor fully discharge it, that 250 cycles of say 400 miles each would be 100k miles and still maintaining over 93% of the battery capacity. Or 200k miles and still maintaining about 85% capacity.

Since this is just a treatment and the 4680 manufacturing process isn't fully up and running yet, it seems like this could be added to the process.

Still crossing my fingers for that new and improved battery warranty!

 

Ogre

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If that's the case and we don't want to charge our CT3 to 100%, nor fully discharge it, that 250 cycles of say 400 miles each would be 100k miles and still maintaining over 93% of the battery capacity. Or 200k miles and still maintaining about 85% capacity.
During the earnings call they mentioned that the 4680 was in fact the “Million Mile“ battery they’d discussed. That suggests to me you should see something above 80% capacity after a million miles.
 
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