Charging networks won't be solved by NACS

[Crissa]

Reliability, cable weight, and the CCS protocol still are bugs to be worked out before the charging woes will be cleaned up. And perhaps more frustrating, that means even the Supercharger network is also going to have teething issues as they adapt to being compatible with more vehicles.

Having more stations altogether, though, should help this teething issue.

-Crissa

PS, there's video of EU Tesla Superchargers with trailers and other brands mixed into the sets without problems! 9:05 and 10:30 in the video.

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[MEDICALJMP]

She makes excellent points.

 

[ldjessee]

Letting other EVs into the Supercharging network will be a huge help for those EVs, as it means they do not have to rely on the poorly maintained chargers that seem to be all to common.

Yes, it is a subset of those chargers, but still... has to be better than the sharp stick in the eye the other networks seem to be from my limited and VERY frustrating experience with them.

 

[scottf200]

This is not how you measure demand for charging infrastructure.

It needs to handle the peak hour it encounters ever, not just when traffic is heavy. So like, when there's an event or evacuation. And then it also needs enough that if some are down - they can still handle it. And they need to be easy enough to use that they encourage customers to rave about them.

It's not enough to say 'hey, it fills up on weekends'. It needs to basically never fill up. What if some stalls fail? What if the next charger station down the road doesn't have power? What if there's an evacuation on this route?

Sure, if you have ten cars a day and they each use an hour you're like, well, there's twenty-four hours in a day, so a single charger will do. No, because those cars are going to overlap. Those ten cars are probably going to arrive at the same hour, and then you need at least ten stalls for them.

-Crissa

Is this the thread you meant to put this in?
It just seemed out of the blue in the:
"Ford is serious - 2025 T3 next gen TN BlueOval build/battery/recycle" thread

 

[Crissa]

Is this the thread you meant to put this in?
It just seemed out of the blue in the:
"Ford is serious - 2025 T3 next gen TN BlueOval build/battery/recycle" thread

Are you blocking AlDente?

I was replying to this:

The bolded part above is simply not true. Drive to any Supercharger location near you and you will see many open Supercharger stalls even on weekends.

-Crissa

 

[fhteagle]

Finally got around to watching this, and I agree with about 95% of it. Her opinion about Chademo I cannot get behind, though. That's a dead standard on this side of the big pond. I feel for Leaf owners, but there's already CCS retrofits, and hopefully NACS retrofits for those cars soon. Putting more Chademo cables on stations that would be more profitable serving NACS cars is simply a waste.

But yes ultimately the more access and choice the consumer has, the better it will be for the EV industry. Superchargers proved that high uptime, and relatively seamless charging experience is possible... with vertical integration. Will be interesting to see how the superchargers handle all the variations in ways to speak ISO 15118. But if the supercharger(s) take(s) a nose dive, or someone comes up with a way to run a charging network even more cheaply, consumer choice and voting with their feet and wallet is a good thing.

 

[HaulingAss]

It's not NACS job to fix all the charging woes of other brands. The point of moving to NACS is to coalesce all EV's around a single standard. It will still be up to the other EV manufacturers to ensure their products comply with the communication timings and protocols.

Tesla knows how to write software and how to interpret written standards in a sensible matter (and how to fix the issue quickly when they make a mistake). It's legacy auto who hires third parties to write their software and who use a mishmash of third-party controllers with questionable compatibility. Using multiple third parties to develop their vehicles connectivity has opened them up to a huge pile of problems, including the inability to quickly fix mistakes.

 

[Crissa]

She's gone more on this subject, very detailed. Why stations are unreliable, why this is needed, and what troubles it'll have.




Why more networks and compatibility is good Tesla is at 11:59, there's a chapter.

Finally got around to watching this, and I agree with about 95% of it. Her opinion about Chademo I cannot get behind, though.

It's massively adopted in Japan and already supports V2L and such. It's just dead here. And yeah, I don't think Leafs are designed to go the distance, so DC charging them isn't much of an advantage, it'll just kill them faster.



I also hope this will show off that Tesla can play and succeed in a non-vertical market.

-Crissa

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

It's not NACS job to fix all the charging woes of other brands. The point of moving to NACS is to coalesce all EV's around a single standard. It will still be up to the other EV manufacturers to ensure their products comply with the communication timings and protocols.

Tesla knows how to write software and how to interpret written standards in a sensible matter (and how to fix the issue quickly when they make a mistake). It's legacy auto who hires third parties to write their software and who use a mishmash of third-party controllers with questionable compatibility. Using multiple third parties to develop their vehicles connectivity has opened them up to a huge pile of problems, including the inability to quickly fix mistakes.

NACS adoption doesn't solve any problems for Tesla or its customers. It only allows other manufacturers to use the Tesla charging network and thus provides some incentive for people to buy their cars that they don't have now because the charging infrastructure available to them is so unreliable. The real solution is to increase the number of chargers available, and to guarantee their reliability. Tesla cannot build a charging network to accommodate the entire country of BEVs any more than Tesla can build BEVs for everyone.

 

[Crissa]

NACS adoption doesn't solve any problems for Tesla or its customers.

It solves the problems of 'Tesla can't be everywhere' and 'you need an adapter to charge outside the Tesla ecosystem'.

The real solution is to increase the number of chargers available, and to guarantee their reliability. Tesla cannot build a charging network to accommodate the entire country of BEVs any more than Tesla can build BEVs for everyone.

...Which solves many other problems for Tesla customers!

-Crissa

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

It solves the problems of 'Tesla can't be everywhere' and 'you need an adapter to charge outside the Tesla ecosystem'.


...Which solves many other problems for Tesla customers!

-Crissa

Not the way it is now. Right now if EA, EVGo, etc. have NACS plugs we could use them on Teslas and they would work some low percentage of the time and drive us crazy. NACS on other cars gives them access to the network we rely on without giving us anything. If someone takes over the other charging networks and makes them work 99% of the time then everyone wins. But I bet that would take a long time.

 

[WormtownKris]

Not the way it is now. Right now if EA, EVGo, etc. have NACS plugs we could use them on Teslas and they would work some low percentage of the time and drive us crazy. NACS on other cars gives them access to the network we rely on without giving us anything. If someone takes over the other charging networks and makes them work 99% of the time then everyone wins. But I bet that would take a long time.

One way that this helps is that now all these crappy unreliable charging networks are in direct competition with the SuperChargers. Over 90% of the EVs in North America will be on NACS. Tesla driver or non-Tesla, are you going to go to the fast and reliable plug-n-go charger or the broken, tough-to-operate -with-a-convoluted-interface one? Either the EAs of the world up their game quickly and keep their existing customers, or they continue to stink, and Tesla eats their lunch.
And another, since Tesla cannot be everywhere, and it doesn't make a ton of sense for the others to set up shop right next to the SCs, more non-Tesla NACS chargers will emerge in new locations, filling gaps. If I am ever far away from a SC, or even if I stop for lunch or a rest stop and happen to be right next to a third party NACS fast charging station, I win as long as one of the ports is functioning.

 

[TyPope]

Don't forget the "standard" part of NACS. The standard includes not just the physical interface of the plug but also requires the same software interface for the vehicle. If you take your Tesla to a non-tesla NACS charger, it will function the same way as a Supercharger. It should all be transparent to you, the user.

Car manufacturers using the NACS standard and charging station owners using NACS will have to make sure they comply with the standards of NACS.

 

[Klyde]

great video! Also would love to see you covering the point about other cars not equipped for superchargers, even if they have NACS equipped. Internal battery temperature management system is really the unsung hero for superchargers, most of the cars that are not tesla are poorly designed in that aspect, so with more degradation in their battery when frequent supercharged, they will also not be able to take in that much/fast charges even if they are plugged into the V3 V4 and V5 in the future, mainly because their battery isnt ready the moment they arrive for supercharging, without preconditioning.

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