Cybertruck “not a real truck” says survey among truck drivers

[RVAC]

Separate two distinct things you are conflating here:

(1) market with which the CT is intended to compete - we both agree the CT is intended to compete with the full sized truck market, period

Depends on your definition of full sized truck market. F-150: yes, F-250: partially, F-350: no.

(2) quantitative full-sized truck categories of capabilities, which are defined by a few key metrics (generally, bed size, but mostly max payload, and max tow)

You’re conflating these by saying, in effect, “the CT is intended to compete in the market of F150s, it’s just a bonus the CT has 3/4 ton capabilities which will help it compete in the F150 category.”

Here’s the analogous conflation and distinction:

You: “in the supermarket produce isles, avocados compete for sales with asparagus, it’s just a bonus that avocados have seeds that can be used to grow an avocado tree”

Me: “Avocados contain a seed that can grow an avocado tree because they are not a vegetable, but instead a fruit/berry, by definition”

You: “avocados are not a fruit, they are competing for sales with vegetables in the produce section, they just happen to have a seed which makes them better at competing with asparagus for people who want their vegetables to grow trees”

Which btw, is a different conflation from people who assert in effect: “the CT is a better full-sized truck than an F150 because the CT has a bigger bed, has higher payload, and higher max towing”

analogue: “the avacado is a better vegetable than an asparagus because an avacado has a seed that grows into a tree”

To which Farmer Ford would reply, “I mean, I also grow tomatoes, squash, cucumbers, peppers, eggplant, pumpkin….”

The CT is category-shattering to the extent it has the exterior envelope of a traditional 1/2 ton truck with the quantitative capabilities of a 3/4 truck. That does not mean it’s a better 1/2 ton truck. But it does mean it can compete in the larger 1/2 ton market (due to size) while nonetheless being a 3/4 ton truck. Ford’s F250 can’t do that (nor would Ford do that to itself).

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, it does mean that it's better than the F-150 (on paper) because it offers more capability within the same constraints. There's a reason why 1/2 ton does not mean 1000lbs of payload any longer.

The Cybertruck works for most buyers in the F-150 segment, it would only work for some buyers in the F-250 segment which is why I think it is a bit disingenuous to suggest it should be compared with the latter and not the former.

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[Crissa]

Uhh, no, you don't replace asparagus with avocado. I think you need to re-examine your argument, @cvalue13

But avocado milkshakes are delicious.

-Crissa

 

[SwampNut]

Asparagus...meh. But I have at least five avocados a week.

The CT is my 250/2500 replacement, because I don't need 100% of everything a diesel 250/2500 can do, but the parts I need, the CT will definitely do better.

 

[cvalue13]

Uhh, no, you don't replace asparagus with avocado. I think you need to re-examine your argument, @cvalue13

But avocado milkshakes are delicious.

-Crissa

choose your analogue

But it’s not an analogical argument, it’s a mere analogy…

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, it does mean that it's better than the F-150 (on paper) because it offers more capability within the same constraints.

again, you appear to be responding to an assertion never made, or uncontroversial, e.g.:

The CT is category-shattering to the extent it has the exterior envelope of a traditional 1/2 ton truck with the quantitative capabilities of a 3/4 truck. That does not mean it’s a better 1/2 ton truck.

In bold is us saying the same thing: the CT is “better” than the F150 in terms of capabilities

≡ avocado is ‘better’ than asparagus in terms of being able to grow a tree​

in italics is a statement of definition: CT is not a better 1/2 ton truck because it’s not a 1/2 ton truck

≡ avocado is not a better vegetable because it’s not a vegetable ​

Y’all are acting up pressing on this!

And while this forum is typically champing at the bit to give the CT its flowers, y’all instead want to die on the hill of making of getting confused about the definitional relevance of comparisons to a 1/2 ton truck.

The CT is effectively the world’s first 3/4 ton BEV truck. That’s remarkable in its own right, but doubly so given the battery weight of the CT. Triply so if it’s within the envelope of a traditional 1/2 ton pickup. Quadruple so if it’s priced like a 1/2 ton truck.

But continuously saying things like “the CT can out tow an F150” is no more interesting than saying “a Ram 2500 can out-tow an F150.”

 

[Crissa]

Is an F150 a half-ton truck or not?

-Crissa

 

[RVAC]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. One thing is to say Cybertruck has the payload of a 3/4 ton another is to say it should be compared to an F-250 instead of an F-150 because of that. That's what prompted my comment. It's not much different than saying Model S is a supercar because of its 0-60 time. The fact that its 0-60 time is that of a supercar doesn't change the fact it competes in the same market segment as other 4-door sedans and that's what it should be compared to.

 

[Ogre]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. One thing is to say Cybertruck has the payload of a 3/4 ton another is to say it should be compared to an F-250 instead of an F-150 because of that. That's what prompted my comment. It's not much different than saying Model S is a supercar because of its 0-60 time. The fact that its 0-60 time is that of a supercar doesn't change the fact it competes in the same market segment as other 4-door sedans and that's what it should be compared to.

Thank you.

Tesla wants to sell trucks in F150 volumes and they want it to be competitive with the F150. Wandering off and talking about the F250 which is a much lower volume seller is not where Tesla wants the Cybertruck to be.

 

[cvalue13]

One thing is to say Cybertruck has the payload of a 3/4 ton another is to say it should be compared to an F-250 instead of an F-150 because of that.

You drinking early on a Friday?

I’ll give up on discerning the conflation you keep making after saying this - past which it can’t be helped:

CONVERSATION TOPIC #1: Target Market Competition

“Tesla wants to displace sales of the F150 and similar full-sized trucks, by providing an alternative that out-competes that competition for market”

CONVERSATION TOPIC #2: Capabilities Category of Truck

“The CyberTruck is categorically a 3/4 ton truck based on objectively quantifiable data, which means it is in the capabilities category other of 250/2500 series 3/4 ton trucks”

CONVERSATION OVERLAP: How Tesla is Executing Market Competition

“One way Tesla will displace sales of the F150 and similar full-sized trucks, is by the CyberTruck having all the size advantages of a 1/2 ton truck, while being a 3/4 ton truck”

I see the forest fine.

I was separately talking about a tree.

The question is whether you can see the tree for the forest.

 

[Ogre]

You drinking early on a Friday?

If multiple people have gotten the same impression from your post… maybe it’s not the reader who is having the issue?

 

[RVAC]

You drinking early on a Friday?

I’ll give up on discerning the conflation you keep making after saying this - past which it can’t be helped:

CONVERSATION TOPIC #1: Target Market Competition

“Tesla wants to displace sales of the F150 and similar full-sized trucks, by providing an alternative that out-competes that competition for market”

CONVERSATION TOPIC #2: Capabilities Category of Truck

“The CyberTruck is categorically a 3/4 ton truck based on objectively quantifiable data, which means it is in the capabilities category other of 250/2500 series 3/4 ton trucks”

CONVERSATION OVERLAP: How Tesla is Executing Market Competition

“One way Tesla will displace sales of the F150 and similar full-sized trucks, is by the CyberTruck having all the size advantages of a 1/2 ton truck, while being a 3/4 ton truck”

I see the forest fine.

I was separately talking about a tree.

The question is whether you can see the tree for the forest.

I'm not conflating anything, I can assure you it's all quite clear. We all understand that the Cybertruck is in the capabilities category of 3/4 ton trucks. The whole point is that it doesn't mean it should be compared to an F-250 which is what you were claiming. You are simply deflecting instead of addressing the crux of the argument.

 

[SwampNut]

You guys should just go ahead and whip them out and get a measuring tape.

 

[Cyberostachu]

56% of “real truck” drivers don’t think Cybertruck is a “real” truck.

But 44% do.

So when those 56% see a real Cybertruck in person, knowing it is not vaporware, then getting to talk to their driver and perhaps getting a ride…. The numbers will change quickly.

 

[Cyberostachu]

​

I'm thinking when my CT arrives, I will haul my fellow golfers 4 of them for every game that's played 40 miles away so these non- believers of EV will realize what they're missing.

 

[cvalue13]

The whole point is that it doesn't mean it should be compared to an F-250 which is what you were claiming. You are simply deflecting instead of addressing the crux of the argument.

Strictly when it comes to comparing capabilities, you can compare it to whatever you want.

But it won’t change the following:

saying things like “the CT can out tow an F150” is no more interesting than saying “a Ram 2500 can out-tow an F150.”

Or maybe you should start a YouTube channel that only does head-to-head towing comparisons of 3/4 ton trucks vs 1/2 ton trucks. Hell, may as well see how a 1/2 ton trucks performs against 1-ton trucks!

It’d make for good satire, at least.

 

[cvalue13]

You guys should just go ahead and whip them out and get a measuring tape.

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