Diehard

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I mean, with battery tech changing so rapidly I'm having second thoughts about dumping a lot of $ into something that's obsolescent in 3 years.
With any Tech heavy purchase, you buy it and don’t look back otherwise regret sets in shortly after no matter when you pull the trigger. Temporal separation between my purchases are so long that size of the improvement makes it difficult to regret.
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Mini2nut

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I hear that. I can only imagine what type of batteries will be powering 2030 Tesla vehicles. We will look back at the original Model S 18650 laptop battery cells and talk about how antiquated they were.

This is a great example. The refreshed Model S debuted yesterday and they have dumped the electric motors in favor of the more advanced Y and 3 motors. Tesla hasn‘t commented specially what type of batteries they are using but I am confident it’s not 18650 cells. Advancement in technology never stops.

“These changes include a new powertrain (battery modules, battery packs, drive units)”
 

egandalf

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Tesla hasn‘t commented specially what type of batteries they are using but I am confident it’s not 18650 cells.
I'd have to check again, but I'm pretty sure they are still using the 18650s for the S/X. Basically, they are getting their hands on every battery they have the capacity to use. They're not going to omit a reasonable supply of cells b/c the other cells simply can't be made fast enough. Battery cells are their largest production bottleneck.

Update:

"CEO Elon Musk, on Tesla's quarterly call, confirmed that the revamped Model S and X will continue to use the 18650 form factor, rather than the 2170 format currently used in the Model 3 and Model Y."

From: https://www.greencarreports.com/new...redesigned-battery-pack-before-520-mile-plaid
 

Mini2nut

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Elon probably won’t reveal the production version of the slightly revised Cybertruck until Rivian RT1 pickups go into production. I am confident that the CT will be revealed within the next 8-weeks since final design/engineering are completed and tooling is ordered.
 

Cybercarlson

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@Dids is right I did not think of casting stainless steel. I assumed alluminium because it is used in X and Y and less dense.
@rodmacpherson
THX for the link . You made me/us more knowlageble. This could be a way to avoid galvanic corrosion.

I think TESLA will still go for alluminum casting.
The material has other advantages (heat disappation, cost, supply side advantages,...) and Tesla has mastered it. cudos @Crissa
 


Bigvbear

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Negligible effect. The truck market is what, 3 million a year? GM and Ford will have EV pickups around 2024 so there's a narrow window for Tesla and "the others" to establish their presence. As Sandy Munro points out, brand loyalty is "unbelievable" among truck owners.
Me? I'm more agnostic about brands and my Tesla reservation is a hedge. I mean, with battery tech changing so rapidly I'm having second thoughts about dumping a lot of $ into something that's obsolescent in 3 years.
Bear in mind, any new car as soon as you drive it off the lot loses value. Cars are not generally equitable investments (like a home). If you buy a 50,000 Mercedes or BMW you wont sell it for 50k 3 years later :)

The other thing about battery tech, since its a pack it could be replaced with a newer unit later on. Although Tesla has not offered this yet, they may down the road. There are other EV makers that have floated the idea of "renting" battery packs for longer range trips.
 

Sonnus

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I have been having the same thoughts ever since they first started to hint that the undercarriage might be cast. Why does everyone assume if it is cast it is aluminum? the 2 most commonly cast metals are iron and stainless steel.
https://intercast.com/2018/04/17/deciding-stainless-steel-casting-cast-iron/
Cast iron and cast stainless are typically cast in a casting media (think sand), not a casting press. I am positive this means the Cybertruck subframe will be aluminum. Not good news on my opinion.
 

Jhodgesatmb

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I hear that. I can only imagine what type of batteries will be powering 2030 Tesla vehicles. We will look back at the original Model S 18650 laptop battery cells and talk about how antiquated they were.

This is a great example. The refreshed Model S debuted yesterday and they have dumped the electric motors in favor of the more advanced Y and 3 motors. Tesla hasn‘t commented specially what type of batteries they are using but I am confident it’s not 18650 cells. Advancement in technology never stops.

“These changes include a new powertrain (battery modules, battery packs, drive units)”
What do you mean look back? They are antiquated now.
 

Diehard

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I'd have to check again, but I'm pretty sure they are still using the 18650s for the S/X. Basically, they are getting their hands on every battery they have the capacity to use. They're not going to omit a reasonable supply of cells b/c the other cells simply can't be made fast enough. Battery cells are their largest production bottleneck.

Update:

"CEO Elon Musk, on Tesla's quarterly call, confirmed that the revamped Model S and X will continue to use the 18650 form factor, rather than the 2170 format currently used in the Model 3 and Model Y."

From: https://www.greencarreports.com/new...redesigned-battery-pack-before-520-mile-plaid
This makes me wonder if some CTs will get crappier batteries than others.
 


Owner13669

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Negligible effect. The truck market is what, 3 million a year? GM and Ford will have EV pickups around 2024 so there's a narrow window for Tesla and "the others" to establish their presence. As Sandy Munro points out, brand loyalty is "unbelievable" among truck owners.
Me? I'm more agnostic about brands and my Tesla reservation is a hedge. I mean, with battery tech changing so rapidly I'm having second thoughts about dumping a lot of $ into something that's obsolescent in 3 years.
That is always the case with technology. If you wait, you could wait forever with the same rationale.
 

egandalf

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This makes me wonder if some CTs will get crappier batteries than others
That's certainly plausible. My plan is to not worry about the underpinned magic too much. The only vehicles I know are using them are the S/X. So worst case we *could* get 2170s. The 3/Y models appear to do very well on those with charging, efficiency, and longevity. Personally, I'm good with that if it happens, but I still hope we get the 4680s.

They also stated that the 18650s aren't the same chemistry - they've updated the chemistry and kept the same form factor. In addition, Tesla has updated how the cells are cooled. So the new S/X should still get gen3 supercharging and temperature management has been improved as well.

My uneducated, armchair guess is that swapping the chemistry a bit is faster/cheaper than retooling for a new form factor in production. Even though there are other advantages to the 4680 (better heat management, tabless design, fewer cells for same output, etc.) we should still get a HELLUVA vehicle for the price.
 
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EVCanuck

EVCanuck

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I don't see how they could do that. The structural pack they use will only fit one form factor of battery.
Same form factor but different chemistries, but I would not call some chemistries crappier than others, like LiFePo batteries have some advantages over NCA.
 
 




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