Dids

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Not sure if it's been mentioned already (this topic has a lot of posts), but in my opinion even a 3% scale reduction needs to eventually have another Reveal Event for us to see it and also an update to the Cybertruck content on the Tesla website. Because who knows if it's exactly 3% proportionally all directions inside and out. Likely there are going to be some areas that lose more space than others to optimize the design, so we will want to see the actual new prototype - just my thoughts anyway. Any rumors on when an updated Reveal might be expected?
Yes. In a month or so.





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Crissa

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Will there be a solar option or not?
We don't know. It's been suggested, but since Elon has been downplaying it.

Any rumors on when an updated Reveal might be expected?
Second quarter, probably after Rivian starts shipping. Elon suggested second quarter due to construction, and that is the most likely point to nab the spotlight back.

-Crissa
 

drscot

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Oops! I meant to say 20 miles per day charge. My bad!
Last I read it is 15 miles, and I'm sure that is only under optimal conditions. You may only get 5-10 miles in actuality. Nobody knows what the additional cost will be yet, or at least those not in-the-know. If nominal cost, or standard equipment, then sure, why not, but how often is one going to push the envelope to the point that you must draw on that 5-15 miles? Doubtful if ever. Tesla makes quality "stuff" no doubt, and I'm willing to pay for that quality, provided it provides the value that I need in my situation. 1/2 gal gasoline equivalent per day is not going to be worth the several thousand (likely) dollar cost of this option, just like solarizing my house. Quoted $45k-$85k without storage, and Tesla told me I had to find an electrician willing to come to them for training to learn to install Powerwalls if I wanted them. Twice. No power for nighttime outages without backup (short term with at that, 12-24 hr). My solution was a Generac 22kW natural gas standby generator that powers EVERYTHING in my 2700 sq ft geothermal home simultaneously and with plenty of reserve capacity. Total cost installed? $8500 with 10 year warranty. To me, IF the solar option is priced like most Tesla options, it makes great philosophical sense, but not economic sense. IF (and that is a big if) it is in the 2k-3k price range (probably conservative), then roughly 1/2 gasoline energy production at that cost will take a very long time to "pay back". Perhaps it isn't a concern to some, but to me, it isn't a good value and I would pass on that option.
And that is my dissenting opinion.
 

drscot

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I don't. He talks out of his hat frequently.

His mistake is trying to compare the energy a car needs in a complete journey to what a solar panel produces.

But this isn't all a solar panel does. It's always there. It's a marathon, not a sprint. And the car always has a baseline loss of energy... Which only gets worse in the winter... And nearly all the time a car isn't moving, but just sitting still.

And it's that sitting still time that adds up. Unlike panels mounted on your house, a panel on the car is always charging the car. And the car can always find something to do with that energy! The house panels will max out what the house can absorb, but the car can always consume more than the panels produce, by heating or cooling itself.

Even more, the car will not always be parked when it can be plugged in. Where those house panels can charge it. Elon'll realize this when he sees how people use the trucks. That they aren't always plugged into a house with panels every day.

-Crissa
Out of my hat? Ok. 15 miles a day under optimal conditions is equivalent more or less to trickle chargers used to keep batteries topped off on ICE systems. They work, yes, and they are efficient, but not worth thousands of dollars like this option is likely to cost. Anyone who wants to spend that for such an option can knock themselves out, but don't knock me for having a dissenting opinion. I'm entitled to my opinion and entitled to express it without ridicule. Or at least I used to be.
 

LoPro

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Out of my hat? Ok. 15 miles a day under optimal conditions is equivalent more or less to trickle chargers used to keep batteries topped off on ICE systems. They work, yes, and they are efficient, but not worth thousands of dollars like this option is likely to cost. Anyone who wants to spend that for such an option can knock themselves out, but don't knock me for having a dissenting opinion. I'm entitled to my opinion and entitled to express it without ridicule. Or at least I used to be.
As mentioned further down in Crissa’s reply, I’m pretty sure it referred to Elon’s hat. Elon mentioned solar with regard to cars in a recent interview with Sandy Munro.

Yes, the price of the solar tonneau option will be very interesting because I really want it, but not at any cost.
 

drscot

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As mentioned further down in Crissa’s reply, I’m pretty sure it referred to Elon’s hat. Elon mentioned solar with regard to cars in a recent interview with Sandy Munro.

Yes, the price of the solar tonneau option will be very interesting because I really want it, but not at any cost.
Of course. It would be a nice add-on, BUT given that Elon says 15 miles per day, it is hard to imagine Tesla producing something that at least on my budget would be cost effective. In fact, budgets aside, anyone can figure an approximate payback time by the cost of 1/2 a gallon (more or less) of a gallon of gas into the total cost of the option, factoring in one's actual fuel usage to determine payback time. Not knowing the cost of the option leaves one in the dark for now. But sure, if it is cost effective I would opt for it too. It is a no brainer, just like opting out is a no brainer if it is going to take 20 yers to break even. My geothermal unit only took 4 years to pay back the investment. It was a no-brainer.
My apologies to Crissa if I misunderstood her comment.
 

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just like solarizing my house. Quoted $45k-$85k without storage
This is apple vs oranges comparison

factory installed options can many times be much cheaper if installation costs are a major factor.
With solar on existing house installation is a major factor.
A new house with solar panels (not solar roof tiles) is much less expensive than adding solar panels to an existing house which still has a good roof (remaining life 5-15 years).

Today I can get parts 20x 450W (9Kw) quality brand solar panels for retail price of $4,000 + grid tie inverter of $1,000. Install cost is not only expensive due to labor costs but also administration costs and delay. Things like planning approvals and permits. So installed cost on existing house might be $40K.

A developer that put solar panels on a new house pays much lower wholesale factory price + lower labor costs + lower administration and planning costs. The same size solar system probable only cost new house buyer $15K-20K.

The Cybertruck has enough room for 3x 450W solar panels. Total retail cost $600 for 3 panels.
It is possible for Tesla to charge less than $1,000.

There are a lot of us that live in California, and other Southwestern U.S. states, and Mexico where we get plenty of sunshine year-round & could get maximum utilization from solar panels on Cybertruck.
 
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drscot

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This is what I found that Elon had to say (or was paraphrased) about the solar option for Cybertruck. It looks like he and I are pretty much in agreement.

"I think there's little debate that built-in solar could be useful for a small segment of the population. What Elon says is it doesn't make economic sense to integrate it in a vehicle like the Cybertruck. To do so would add cost, complexity and possibly sacrifice: the panels can be on the hood, roof or vault, but the present material on each was chosen for a valuable reason. For me and likely 95% of CT buyers, they would never have reason to need built in solar, and the cost and other sacrifices would likely deter them. For the remaining niche group, they could continue to use the system they already have to go to Burning Man and probably still be better off than the additional cost Tesla would have to charge to add a fairly complicated but rarely needed option."
Elon is stating that one's existing carry along or other system would be better and more cost effective than what Tesla would have to charge, but Hey, if someone wants one, knock themselves out. It's like I chose my natural gas (yes, fossil fuel) generator for my home because it will run around the clock, day after day for pennies when called upon rather than up to 10X the cost for solar that will poop out and go dark even with backup (which costs a lot more) after 24 hours of snow, ice, and darkness. I'll be warm and all the lights will be on and my fridge and washer and dryer running at peak demands. Solar? No way. Someday, sure. Just not yet. Like I said, solar is great, but not a panacea. Its day is coming but has not yet arrived. My $45k-$85k solar quotes did NOT include backup. I was NOT going to go knocking on doors to find an electrician willing to spend his (or my) money to fly to Tesla for training for installation of PowerWalls, which would have only given me 24 hours backup anyway as I recall. I may change my tune when purists get pure. It is a worthy endeavor, but not practical yet. If anybody can get us there, I do believe Elon can. He is brilliant and innovative and he strives to lower costs. We need more like him for sure.
 

drscot

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This is apple vs oranges comparison

factory installed options can many times be much cheaper if installation costs are a major factor.
With solar on existing house installation is a major factor.
A new house with solar panels (not solar roof tiles) is much less expensive than putting solar on existing house.

Today I can get parts 20x 450W (9Kw) quality brand solar panels for retail price of $4,000 + grid tie inverter of $1,000. Install cost is not only expensive due to labor costs but also administration costs and delay. Things like planning approvals and permits. So installed cost on existing house might be $40K.

A developer that put solar panels on a new house pays much lower wholesale factory price + lower labor costs + lower administration and planning costs. The same size solar system probable only cost new house buyer $15K-20K.

The Cybertruck has enough room for 3x 450W solar panels. Total retail cost $600 for 3 panels.
It is possible for Tesla to charge less than $1,000.

There are a lot of us that live in California, and other Southwestern U.S. states, and Mexico where we get plenty of sunshine year-round & could get maximum utilization from solar panels on Cybertruck.
Could be, but read what Elon had to say about cost effectiveness below. I think $1,000 or less is pie in the sky. I really tried to go solar on my new home, but couldn't justify lower performance for much higher cost. I've had my Generac 22 kW natural gas standby generator for four years now without a cough or a hiccup and we have plenty of power outages here. I'm the only house on the block with power when that happens, all within 30 seconds. Piece of cake.
 

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Out of my hat? Ok. 15 miles a day under optimal conditions is equivalent more or less to trickle chargers used to keep batteries topped off on ICE systems.
You aren't Elon, and you know nothing about how trickle chargers work, apparently.

And to never have to worry about losing charge over time?

Priceless.

Your math is terrible. And Tesla never gives quotes if there's not available installer.

-Crissa
 

Dids

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This is what I found that Elon had to say (or was paraphrased) about the solar option for Cybertruck. It looks like he and I are pretty much in agreement.

"I think there's little debate that built-in solar could be useful for a small segment of the population. What Elon says is it doesn't make economic sense to integrate it in a vehicle like the Cybertruck. To do so would add cost, complexity and possibly sacrifice: the panels can be on the hood, roof or vault, but the present material on each was chosen for a valuable reason. For me and likely 95% of CT buyers, they would never have reason to need built in solar, and the cost and other sacrifices would likely deter them. For the remaining niche group, they could continue to use the system they already have to go to Burning Man and probably still be better off than the additional cost Tesla would have to charge to add a fairly complicated but rarely needed option."
Elon is stating that one's existing carry along or other system would be better and more cost effective than what Tesla would have to charge, but Hey, if someone wants one, knock themselves out. It's like I chose my natural gas (yes, fossil fuel) generator for my home because it will run around the clock, day after day for pennies when called upon rather than up to 10X the cost for solar that will poop out and go dark even with backup (which costs a lot more) after 24 hours of snow, ice, and darkness. I'll be warm and all the lights will be on and my fridge and washer and dryer running at peak demands. Solar? No way. Someday, sure. Just not yet. Like I said, solar is great, but not a panacea. Its day is coming but has not yet arrived. My $45k-$85k solar quotes did NOT include backup. I was NOT going to go knocking on doors to find an electrician willing to spend his (or my) money to fly to Tesla for training for installation of PowerWalls, which would have only given me 24 hours backup anyway as I recall. I may change my tune when purists get pure. It is a worthy endeavor, but not practical yet. If anybody can get us there, I do believe Elon can. He is brilliant and innovative and he strives to lower costs. We need more like him for sure.
I think your comparison of a backup generator and a daily production system cost is deliberately skewed. You claim to be a PhD so I am sure that you have critical thinking skills and know how to do math.
Perhaps solar is not cost effective for your unique location or perhaps it's too capitol intensive for your situation, but solar is the already the cheapest energy ever produced so arguing that you have a cheaper solution makes it look like you didn't do the math or that you are fearful of change. And all that has nothing to do with solar on a vehicle.
 

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A generator is cheaper in the short run, but not in the long run since retail fuel is so expensive.

-Crissa
Plus add in maintenance. Or outright repair if maintenance is not kept up to date. And heaven forbid you go a season without use. Next time you need power it might not run.

Personally I find fossil fuel engines to be far less reliable than people think.
 

Crissa

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Oh, yeah. My generator's starter flat up doesn't work anymore. I can't figure out why! Each part seems to work in isolation. 9-9 Gotta pull it by hand.

Anyhow, yeah. Sometimes things can be mysteriously not as cheap as they look.

-Crissa
 

drscot

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You aren't Elon, and you know nothing about how trickle chargers work, apparently.

And to never have to worry about losing charge over time?

Priceless.

Your math is terrible. And Tesla never gives quotes if there's not available installer.

-Crissa
Never said I was Elon, Crissa, and in fact, I said before I would not accept his paycheck specifically because I do not have his talents. I also never said they gave me a quote. I called for a quote. You read my post carelessly. I sought to have a Powerwall (actually two) installed for backup for a solar system and they told me that I would have to seek out an electrician willing to go to Tesla for training for installation. That's what I said. I was not going to go knocking on doors or even let my fingers do the walking in the Yellow Pages to find electricians willing to travel to Tesla for training. It is Tesla's job to recruit technicians, not mine. That's what I said. You put words in my mouth that I didn't say. Seems your reading skills are just as poor as you say my math skills are. For your pleasure, I also posted what Elon said about the lack of cost effectiveness of the solar option for the CT given it's optimum 15 mile per day "boost" for the vast majority of CT owners; that it would be only a few CT owners who would still want it. I recognized that and said if it was right for you to "knock yourself out". That covers the "few". Elon went on to say that most CT owners would even be BETTER OFF to continue to use their carry along units that they are using now, rather than an integrated factory CT solar option. I don't know how much clearer it can be. If the solar panels work for you or others, by all means, buy them if Elon makes them factory available but it sounded like a dubious possibility at best. Or buy your own "haul with you and deploy as desired" system like Elon said would be better than any factory option. My thoughts after reading Elon's thoughts are that the solar option has such limited utility and not at a cost effective price that it simply won't be offered in a turnkey modality. Perhaps a "do-it-yourself" void your warranty "do you feel lucky today, Punk" kit manner, but factory option? I doubt it. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.
Read what Elon said about the solar option for the CT and its lack of bang for the buck in so many words. You are entitled to think it is the best thing since sliced bread, but that doesn't make it a viable option for the majority of CT buyers. Elon recognized that. Buy a gazillion micro-motor CT if you want too. It's a free country. I'm free to expound on why it may not be a good choice for myself if I so choose and others may agree or disagree as they see fit. That doesn't make me a poor mathematician or a bad guy however. Whoever said we all have to have the same opinion or arrive at the same conclusions? I thought that what discourse was all about.
 

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