Estimate cost of charging a Dual Motor

DarinCT

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This thread explains everything nicely though reality is often a bit different. People need food, coffee, bathroom breaks, prefer this stop's restaurant over that one and/or willing to charge longer at one because you're in no hurry.

Given all of the above, it's as simple as pressing "remove charging stops" while charging and the HUD will recalculate everything for you.
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DarinCT

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This is all cool.

Last question. If you do as you say and decide you want to finish your bagel and the charging target has been met, but you don't want to keep charging.. Does it require physically unplugging to stop the charge? Or do you click stop charging in the ui? So you could potentially not get an extra charge while you finish the bagel, but not have to get out to unplug?

I realize this is a stupid thing to do, because you would start getting charged for idle time at the charger while not charging, and i would actually just keep charging until I'm ready to go. I'm just trying to understand the actual real world mechanics of the car/charging ui and functionality.
You can stop charging though the app or HUD (what I call the in car tablet)
 

ajdelange

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This is all cool.
Yes, it really is. You're going to love this thing!

Last question. If you do as you say and decide you want to finish your bagel and the charging target has been met, but you don't want to keep charging.. Does it require physically unplugging to stop the charge? Or do you click stop charging in the ui?
Yes, this is a Tesla, any of the above or the Tesla or other app. A little detail: there is a button on the charging "wand". If you push it before starting a charge it opens the charge port door. If you push it during a charge it terminates the charge and unlocks the wand so you can remove it.

So you could potentially not get an extra charge while you finish the bagel, but not have to get out to unplug?
Or even leave the bagel joint if you are eating it in there.

I realize this is a stupid thing to do, because you would start getting charged for idle time at the charger while not charging, and i would actually just keep charging until I'm ready to go. I'm just trying to understand the actual real world mechanics of the car/charging ui and functionality.
Charging beyond y is often done so you can finish your bagel without getting hit with the idle fees. And have a bit of extra margin in the tank.
 
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Chris9702L

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Thanks for the replies. I got interested in solar panels and it got me thinking about how much extra in panels I should get. This led me to wonder how much it would cost to charge at home. I can't wait to avoid going to the gas station for $50 fillups in my Honda Ridgeline. The normal daily drive doesn't affect me (I work away from home so I only do 3 to 4 drives to work a month) but I'm more concerned about the drives to go fishing and boating up in the mountains. I will do alot of charging to 100% because I will be doing out and backs mainly towing a boat (also a camper). I'm in Colorado Springs and the supercharger options aren't the greatest out here yet (Hello Tesla, if you are reading this we really need a supercharger in Pueblo and Woodland Park!).
 

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This thread explains everything nicely though reality is often a bit different. People need food, coffee, bathroom breaks, prefer this stop's restaurant over that one and/or willing to charge longer at one because you're in no hurry.

Given all of the above, it's as simple as pressing "remove charging stops" while charging and the HUD will recalculate everything for you.
You can stop charging though the app or HUD (what I call the in car tablet)
But it's not a "Head Up Display" at all. It is a "Head Down Display" (HDD).

More to the point the in car displays give you tremendous flexibility especially on a familiar route. You know where the chargers are and you know where the clean restrooms are and you know where the good snack bars, diners and restaurants are so you have, as I mentioned in No. 13, much of the flexibility with respect to the 3 B's (battery, bladder, bread) as you do with ICE. As an example, I've found over the years that the best way to get from the DC metro area to the Canadian border is by stopping for a charge at Paramus and then again in Brattleboro. This avoids the Cross Bronx, Connecticut and Massachussets and takes us through some beautiful parts of Vermont. So I usually put Paramus in the car's nav system and set out. Last time we did the trip we saw that we had plenty of margin at Paramus but that it was completely full (BTW it is completely full as of this writing Friday 11:30 AM). We didn't want to wait there and so reprogrammed for Newburg, the next opportunity past Paramus on our preferred route. Yes, we could make that but the margin was less than 10% (and we don't like to go below 20%) so the prudent thing to do was charge somewhere before Paramus. There are plenty of opportunities but we know that the Joyce Kilmer rest stop has V3's and lots of amenities so we stopped there. Now this changes the rest of the plan. Charging up enough to get to Brattleboro from Kilmer would mean going out of our SoC comfort zone and why do that when we know we will be stopping in Bennington where there is a 50 kW CHAdeMO right next to a good Mexican joint but I'd have to pay EvGo fess or we could stop in at the Kingston SC (free) or...

The point I'm trying to make is that there is lots of flexibility. I should also point out that neither the Tesla planner nor ABRP would come up with anything like this route or charging schedule for a trip to this destination. We have modulated this route considerably to meet our needs, preferences and comfort level. Do you not all do the same with your ICE drives? Actually it's probably best to point out that we came up with this route while driving ICE. What spurred our decision to go Tesla was the determination that we could drive this route comfortably in an X.
 
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But it's not a "Head Up Display" at all. It is a "Head Down Display" (HDD).

More to the point the in car displays give you tremendous flexibility especially on a familiar route. You know where the chargers are and you know where the clean restrooms are and you know where the good snack bars, diners and restaurants are so you have, as I mentioned in No. 13, much of the flexibility with respect to the 3 B's (battery, bladder, bread) as you do with ICE. As an example, I've found over the years that the best way to get from the DC metro area to the Canadian border is by stopping for a charge at Paramus and then again in Brattleboro. This avoids the Cross Bronx, Connecticut and Massachussets and takes us through some beautiful parts of Vermont. So I usually put Paramus in the car's nav system and set out. Last time we did the trip we saw that we have plenty of margin at Paramus but that it is completely full (BTW it is completely full as of this writing Friday 11:30 AM). We didn't want to wait there and so reprogramed for Newburg, the next opportunity past Paramus on out preferred route. Yes, we could make that but the margin was less than 10% (and we don't like to go below 20%) so the prudent thing to do is charge somewhere before Paramus. There are plenty of opportunities but we know that the Joyce Kilmer rest stop has V3's and lots of amenities so we stopped there. Now this changes the rest of the plan. Charging up enough to get to Brattleboro from Kilmer would mean going out of our SoC comfort zone and why do that when we know we will be stopping in Bennington where there is a 50 kW CHAdeMO right next to a good Mexican joint but I'd have to pay EvGo fess or we could stop in at the Kingston SC (free) or...

The point I'm trying to make is that there is lots of flexibility. I should also point out that neither the Tesla planner nor ABRP would come up with anything like this route or charging schedule for a trip to this destination. We have modulated this route considerably to meet our needs, preferences and comfort level. Do you not all do the same with your ICE drives? Actually it's probably best to point out that we came up with this route while driving ICE. What spurred our decision to go Tesla was the determination that we could drive this route comfortably in an X.
Yes i have my own well established routes up and down the coast. I'm just using the Tesla route planner to get a sense of where chargers are and what type of charging distance and routes are possible, because I've yet to own an ev. Once you get your own, then you start to build your own preferred range and charging schedule based on known preferred waypoints as you say.
 

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As you drive your truck it accumulates data on consumption and miles driven and thus on your actual consumption which will not be the rated consumption. For some it is quite close to the rated consumption but for others (those who drive primarily on freeways with speed limits above 65, those who can't resist coming out of every stop sign and traffic light as if they are race car drivers..) it will be higher. What I have given here is a set of nominal numbers. If your actual consumption is more or less you will learn how to adjust from nominal if you care to make the effort.
I was thinking about this after I posted last night, but @ajdelange says it pretty well.

Everything depends on how you drive. Drive like a maniac and your economy goes down quite a bit. Obviously the truck is a wildcard, but with my Model Y, mileage drops off over 50MPH, slowly at first, then as your speed creeps over 70MPH, it starts to go south quicker and quicker. Blazing down the highway at 90 MPH and your range disappears fast.
 

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I got interested in solar panels and it got me thinking about how much extra in panels I should get.
That depends on how much of which load you want to cover with solar. Most outfits pitching solar will plan a system for you that covers 2/3 or so of you annual consumption. If you want to take that approach then estimate your annual use for the truck based on how far you plan to drive it. Use 0.45 kWh/mi for normal driving and double that for miles towing trailer or boat.



I'm more concerned about the drives to go fishing and boating up in the mountains. I will do alot of charging to 100% because I will be doing out and backs mainly towing a boat (also a camper).
Yes that's what you should be worrying about. Your consumption will be .9 to 1kW or even more when towing especially up hill. You'll get some of that (the part not thrown off by the trailer's friction brakes but in essence you 500 mi CT is now a 200 mi (or less) tractor.



I'm in Colorado Springs and the supercharger options aren't the greatest out here yet (Hello Tesla, if you are reading this we really need a supercharger in Pueblo and Woodland Park!).
The SC charger situation looks very good out there on PlugShare for a 500 rated mile vehicle but for a 200 mile one perhaps not so good. Look for NEMA 14-50 at camp grounds. There are a couple of 50 kW CHAdeMO in the state too.
 

ajdelange

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Everything depends on how you drive. Drive like a maniac and your economy goes down quite a bit. Obviously the truck is a wildcard, but with my Model Y, mileage drops off over 50MPH, slowly at first, then as your speed creeps over 70MPH, it starts to go south quicker and quicker. Blazing down the highway at 90 MPH and your range disappears fast.
The drag load, per mile, goes up as the square of the true air speed. It doesn't start to emerge as the dominant load until perhaps 60 mph. But thereafter it goes up fast. Quick acceleration/decelleration is a killer too as it requires torque and torque requires slip and slip produces friction loss.
 

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The drag load, per mile, goes up as the square of the true air speed. It doesn't start to emerge as the dominant load until perhaps 60 mph. But thereafter it goes up fast. Quick acceleration/decelleration is a killer too as it requires torque and torque requires slip and slip produces friction loss.
I wish Tesla had a range extender mode which enables some more aggressive range optimizations. "Chill" acceleration is a nice start, but they could do a lot more.
 


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The X has something. I think it is called "Range Mode" or something like that. I think it engages Chill Mode, limits speed and curtails HVAC and battery warming/cooling.
 

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Constant throttle setting cruise instead of constant speed cruise would be a good start. Thats how I've been driving my ICE trucks, vans and cars for years. Works well to reduce consumption, you can nearly lock in a rate of consumption like that.

Another one would be predictive terrain cruise like Merc trucks have.
 

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Constant throttle setting cruise instead of constant speed cruise would be a good start. Thats how I've been driving my ICE trucks, vans and cars for years. Works well to reduce consumption, you can nearly lock in a rate of consumption like that.

Another one would be predictive terrain cruise like Merc trucks have.
Yes, that would be a big help. On the flats, 65MPH or even 70MPH is ok. When you get on hills trying to maintain 70MPH can burn a lot of juice. I often manually throttle down on climbs for this reason.

I think a big part of the issue is having cars that fluctuate speed is really annoying to other drivers.
 

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Only if you're travelling as fast as them, otherwise they overtake. With ICE I'm always the one overtaking though... Germans... :p

I don't have that traffic problem. If i leave at 7pm I might see 10 cars and about 20 trucks in 600km (375miles). And thats traffic both ways. Even on a lazy Sunday that can be less than 100.
 

ajdelange

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Consumption (joules/meter) is just power (joules/sec) divided by speed (meters/sec) so the vehicle clearly knows what the consumption is at any instant of time and that could be used in a control loop with a desired consumption as the setpoint. The problem is, of course, that speed will be all over the place as grade changes and wind gusts take place. I guess the loop output could be smoothed to prevent this resulting in smoother speed variation while still realizing an average consumption. But of course that's what we effectively do if we see consumption rate is too high (meaning we will run out of battery before reaching the destination). If the loop sees consumption above the set point it can only respond by asking for less total drain from the battery and the obvious way to do that is reduce power to the motors but there are other things that can be done such as turning down the A/C and reducing battery cooling but that's what Range mode does and that's what a prudent driver (the meat servo) does if he sees that consumption is too high.

Just putting on autopilot might help a wee bit as it puts a steady foot on the pedal avoiding the costs of small accelerations and decellerations.
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