Glass roof top?

[FutureBoy]

Nooooooo!!!!!!

Not this heated argument again!!!

Nothing personal. Just that this argument has stirred up quite a pot of spicy sauce in the past. Over and over again. In multiple threads....

On another note.... One could just mount the antennae to the center of the front hood. Deeper question... Does the metal need to be magnetic to work the way you want?

Even deeper question... There was talk about the new glass in CT being "transparent aluminum". If so... Isn't the roof just a see-through metal roof? How much metal do you need?

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[FutureBoy]

Obviously you have not try it in Florida. We have the flimsy stuff aftermarket POS one below our glass on the Model Y, again nothing compares to the automaker's insulation (embedded into the roof like on our Maverick). Theory dictates you need insulation but you need distance, like when they insulate your roof, you know right? It's standard practice for the fluffy stuff not to be a film but about 16" it's the standard here to get some tangible R value. So please don't tell me some 1/16" reflective stuff it is going to do the same job as about 1" of insulation material specially designed for it that they install in regular car roofs. Indeed, have you try it? Theory is beautiful but you have to try it. It does not work. Experience people. You need to experience it. Next time you come to Florida Turo one and try it. We talk after that.

I hear closed cell spray foam has pretty good R value. Spray that to the underside of the window and your problem might be solved.

If you don't have a good covering over EVERY other part of the vehicle while you spray and until the foam hardens, you will have a whole other mess to deal with.

 

[FutureBoy]

Does the tint make stargazing at night useless?

It is pretty hard to stargaze through.

-Crissa

Perhaps its better than Seattle cloud cover filled with city light pollution though.

 

[FutureBoy]

Bard makes shit up. If it doesn't give you a source, it's not true.

It's just like a child, confabulating but with basic grammar.

-Crissa

So with the basic grammar, it does better than many of the posts I write. And possibly better than some posts by others around these parts. Welcome Bard! Speculate away! Just like the rest of us.

 

[JBee]

If ham is your jam, you could easily attach a ground plane to the glass roof using magnets to something inside the underneath of the glass roof. That way you either have the ground plane under the glass with the antenna on top, or you could have the ground plane and antenna on top of the glass and just mount it with magnets through the glass to the inside.

Seems fairly simple to do, and to remove when not needed, and still very low profile and aero. It could also double as a interior sunshade. Make a kit to sell on Amazon to other hammers.

 

[cvalue13]

here’s a tangentially related question:

is Tesla going to provide just AM radio on the CT?

i assume not since they don’t otherwise, but all else equal it would be a good move for a “real truck”

My ‘22 Lightning has AM, but Ford deleted it in the ‘23.

Tesla could score an old head point there by saying, c’mon a working man’s truck without AM?

 

[Crissa]

You don't need holes through the glass. The wires can take a path through the adhesive.

Sheesh.

You're going to have a ton of air resistance for your aerial, so I'm not sure why you're worried about a roof rack. You can also just use wires adhered to the roof, it doesn't need to be a full circle.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Technically...you could also design the mounting system that attaches to either side of the glass magnetically, (no need for holes) as the ground plane and the antenna itself in the glass or.... just get one of these antennas that works through the glass without you having to cut holes or mount anything:

https://secomms.com.au/product/vhf-on-glass-antenna-150-174-mhz-apr153/

Or mount anything you like with one of these that I had on my Landcruiser so you can use the hood at least as a partial ground plane:

Or just use a bracket in the frunk or trunk door seam:

Or a combo inside the glass ground plane and one of these suckers on the outside:

https://www.seasucker.com.au/latest-news/new-product-vhf-uhf-roof-antenna-mount/

Alternatively buy yourself a $50 mobile and install Zello PTT or other PTT service, or Serval Mesh for an open source version. Mumble PTT works too. The engineering behind these is pretty interesting too, and being able to just PTT to anyone like a CB is pretty great for work and outdoors. Even more fun if you set it up on your server/VPS and use Starlink to make it world wide coverage.

 

[JBee]

here’s a tangentially related question:

is Tesla going to provide just AM radio on the CT?

i assume not since they don’t otherwise, but all else equal it would be a good move for a “real truck”

My ‘22 Lightning has AM, but Ford deleted it in the ‘23.

Tesla could score an old head point there by saying, c’mon a working man’s truck without AM?

I'd take Starlink that streams any radio station in at least FM quality, if not CD qualtity over a AM radio. In the US you have XM as well, but ultimately Starlink is better. Worst case you could also run a Bluetooth FM transmitter as well from songs and podcasts you actually like without adds.

But really given that SDR chipsets are so cheap and available now, they might as well bundle something like the RTL-SDR radio, or at least allow an app to run on the screen for it after you plug it into the USB. That way you get all the modulation types you want, from FM, AM, PM, SSB, PSK, etc and can do funky stuff like passive radar for weather and planes, all with a $30 USB dongle. For $150 you can get transmit versions too. LW and AM are fairly difficult to transmit on because of there large antenna arrays, but receiving works with a small ferrite antenna. That's why the stations are going out of fashion. We had a local AM one that even had AM Stereo! Not that it made it sound any better...just twice the noise out of phase really.

 

[Huntsman]

https://www.seasucker.com.

Sea Sucker device is ideal on a glass roof. It is low aero drag and hangs on well. With the glass roof you have lost any ground plane reflectivity but you gain over the horizon benefit by being on the roof. CT roof is never parallel to the ground so that ship has sailed in multiple directions. You might find a more expensive antenna on your handy talkie improves performance over the rubber duckie and avoid an external antenna (coax squished in door) all together.

 

[CyberGus]

Congress Considers Saving AM Radio In Cars
Brad Adgate Jun 5, 2023

The U.S. House Communications and Technology Subcommittee will hold hearings on Tuesday for the proposed legislation that would require all new automobiles to come equipped with AM radio. The hearing entitled, “Listen Here: Why Americans Value AM Radio”, comes in the aftermath of eight automobile makers have either dropped, or intend to drop, AM radio in certain car models. These car makers cite with electric vehicles (EV), the motors interfere with AM radio, causing faded signals and an irritating buzzing sound. The hearing is the latest example of Congressional concerns as carmakers remove AM radio in some, if not all, of their newer models.

In May, Congress introduced laws designed to protect the presence of AM radio in cars. In a rare achievement, “The AM for Every Vehicle Act”, has bi-partisan support. It was introduced in the Senate by Ed Markey (D-MA) with co-sponsor Ted Cruz (R-TX). The proposed bill would require carmakers to keep AM radio in cars. The bill has the support of National Association of Broadcasters, the National Association of Farm Broadcasting and the chairperson of the FCC, Jessica Rosenworcel. The sponsors of the proposed bill cite the role of AM radio has in emergencies especially in rural areas.

In the House of Representatives, Cathy McMorris (R-WA), Chair of the Energy and Commerce Committee said, “Communities across the country rely on AM radio services for local news, weather reports, and other critical information. It is also a key tool for our nation's emergency communications infrastructure, especially when other communication services are not available. I look forward to this timely discussion on the many benefits of AM radio as a source of information and the importance of ensuring it continues to be available in new vehicle models.”

Energy and Commerce Committee Ranking Member Frank Pallone, Jr. (D-NJ), said, “It’s alarming that some auto manufacturers are considering opting out of installing AM radios in new cars. AM radio plays an essential role in our communities, especially during public emergencies when other alert systems that rely on the electric grid and cellphone networks may not work. I’m looking forward to the Energy and Commerce Committee holding a hearing on this important matter. Corporate penny pinching is not a justification to undermine one of our nation’s most reliable public emergency communication networks, and requiring consumers to pay more money for a subscription service to receive AM radio is not an acceptable alternative.”

Following the announcement of the proposed Congressional law, Ford Motor F -0.8%, after indicating that AM radio would be removed in most of their U.S. car models, stated in the future all car models will come with AM radio. In a social media post, Ford Motor CEO Jim Farley, wrote, “We’ve decided to include it on all 2024 Ford and Lincoln vehicles. For any owners of Ford’s EVs without AM broadcast capability, we’ll offer a software update.”

In a written response, Senator Markey said, “Innovation in the automotive industry should mean more features, not fewer, for consumers. Ford’s reversal reflects an overdue realization about the importance of AM radio, but too many automakers are still going the wrong direction.” Markey added, Congress should still pass the legislation.

Last December, Senator Markey had sent a letter to 20 prominent automakers, inquiring about their intention of including AM radio in their cars. In response, eight said they had eliminated AM radio in EV cars. On May 15, over 100 Congressional members from both parties, followed up with detailed letters on the future plans of the car makers. The letters were sent to both the car makers that had previously said they removed AM radio in some vehicles, or they had not responded to the December letter.

Despite being over 100 years old, AM radio remains a listening source. According to Nielsen NLSN 0.0% Audio, in its Fall 2022 survey, AM radio had 82.3 million monthly listeners, or about one in three AM/FM radio listeners. A Westwood One analysis found the news/talk is the most popular format, with 46.9 million monthly listeners. The Nielsen study also found the share of AM listening varies by metro. Buffalo-Niagara is tops with 56% of their monthly audience listening to AM radio. In Chicago, 48% of monthly listeners tune into AM and Milwaukee ranks third. Overall, Nielsen reports there are 141 radio metros in which AM radio accounts for a minimum of 20% of total broadcast radio listening.

An Infinite Dial survey, from Edison Research, released earlier this year, noted that AM/FM radio remains the most popular audio source in cars; 53% of persons age 12+ listen to online audio via a cell phone. Edison Research notes the percentage has been growing.

The Alliance for Automotive Innovations, a trade association and lobby group representing cars and light trucks, has argued a law mandating AM radio is not needed. In a letter to Congressional members, the association cited the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) as having various alternative methods to transit safety warnings such as, FM radio, web and satellite radio and cellular networks. In a letter to Congress, the group pointed out 97% of Americans own a cellphone and receive emergency alerts even when the cell network is unable to send calls and data.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradad...keeping-am-radio-in-all-cars/?sh=46eda5fe52d2

 

[WHIZZARD OF OZ]

If ham is your jam, you could easily attach a ground plane to the glass roof using magnets to something inside the underneath of the glass roof. That way you either have the ground plane under the glass with the antenna on top, or you could have the ground plane and antenna on top of the glass and just mount it with magnets through the glass to the inside.

Seems fairly simple to do, and to remove when not needed, and still very low profile and aero. It could also double as a interior sunshade. Make a kit to sell on Amazon to other hammers.

HAMMERS' TIME....Money For Jam(!)

 

[JBee]

Congress Considers Saving AM Radio In Cars
Brad Adgate Jun 5, 2023

The U.S. House Communications and Technology Subcommittee will hold hearings on Tuesday for the proposed legislation that would require all new automobiles to come equipped with AM radio. The hearing entitled, “Listen Here: Why Americans Value AM Radio”, comes in the aftermath of eight automobile makers have either dropped, or intend to drop, AM radio in certain car models. These car makers cite with electric vehicles (EV), the motors interfere with AM radio, causing faded signals and an irritating buzzing sound. The hearing is the latest example of Congressional concerns as carmakers remove AM radio in some, if not all, of their newer models.

In May, Congress introduced laws designed to protect the presence of AM radio in cars. In a rare achievement, “The AM for Every Vehicle Act”, has bi-partisan support. It was introduced in the Senate by Ed Markey (D-MA) with co-sponsor Ted Cruz (R-TX). The proposed bill would require carmakers to keep AM radio in cars. The bill has the support of National Association of Broadcasters, the National Association of Farm Broadcasting and the chairperson of the FCC, Jessica Rosenworcel. The sponsors of the proposed bill cite the role of AM radio has in emergencies especially in rural areas.

In the House of Representatives, Cathy McMorris (R-WA), Chair of the Energy and Commerce Committee said, “Communities across the country rely on AM radio services for local news, weather reports, and other critical information. It is also a key tool for our nation's emergency communications infrastructure, especially when other communication services are not available. I look forward to this timely discussion on the many benefits of AM radio as a source of information and the importance of ensuring it continues to be available in new vehicle models.”

Energy and Commerce Committee Ranking Member Frank Pallone, Jr. (D-NJ), said, “It’s alarming that some auto manufacturers are considering opting out of installing AM radios in new cars. AM radio plays an essential role in our communities, especially during public emergencies when other alert systems that rely on the electric grid and cellphone networks may not work. I’m looking forward to the Energy and Commerce Committee holding a hearing on this important matter. Corporate penny pinching is not a justification to undermine one of our nation’s most reliable public emergency communication networks, and requiring consumers to pay more money for a subscription service to receive AM radio is not an acceptable alternative.”

Following the announcement of the proposed Congressional law, Ford Motor F -0.8%, after indicating that AM radio would be removed in most of their U.S. car models, stated in the future all car models will come with AM radio. In a social media post, Ford Motor CEO Jim Farley, wrote, “We’ve decided to include it on all 2024 Ford and Lincoln vehicles. For any owners of Ford’s EVs without AM broadcast capability, we’ll offer a software update.”

In a written response, Senator Markey said, “Innovation in the automotive industry should mean more features, not fewer, for consumers. Ford’s reversal reflects an overdue realization about the importance of AM radio, but too many automakers are still going the wrong direction.” Markey added, Congress should still pass the legislation.

Last December, Senator Markey had sent a letter to 20 prominent automakers, inquiring about their intention of including AM radio in their cars. In response, eight said they had eliminated AM radio in EV cars. On May 15, over 100 Congressional members from both parties, followed up with detailed letters on the future plans of the car makers. The letters were sent to both the car makers that had previously said they removed AM radio in some vehicles, or they had not responded to the December letter.

Despite being over 100 years old, AM radio remains a listening source. According to Nielsen NLSN 0.0% Audio, in its Fall 2022 survey, AM radio had 82.3 million monthly listeners, or about one in three AM/FM radio listeners. A Westwood One analysis found the news/talk is the most popular format, with 46.9 million monthly listeners. The Nielsen study also found the share of AM listening varies by metro. Buffalo-Niagara is tops with 56% of their monthly audience listening to AM radio. In Chicago, 48% of monthly listeners tune into AM and Milwaukee ranks third. Overall, Nielsen reports there are 141 radio metros in which AM radio accounts for a minimum of 20% of total broadcast radio listening.

An Infinite Dial survey, from Edison Research, released earlier this year, noted that AM/FM radio remains the most popular audio source in cars; 53% of persons age 12+ listen to online audio via a cell phone. Edison Research notes the percentage has been growing.

The Alliance for Automotive Innovations, a trade association and lobby group representing cars and light trucks, has argued a law mandating AM radio is not needed. In a letter to Congressional members, the association cited the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) as having various alternative methods to transit safety warnings such as, FM radio, web and satellite radio and cellular networks. In a letter to Congress, the group pointed out 97% of Americans own a cellphone and receive emergency alerts even when the cell network is unable to send calls and data.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradad...keeping-am-radio-in-all-cars/?sh=46eda5fe52d2

If AM is just a software update then they must all still have the hardware installed anyway.

Interference is obviously a problem, but I'd expect it's from the motor controller switching frequency not from the motors themselves.

 

[HaulingAss]

If you want an opaque roof, which I would hate after having experienced how the environment transforms with all-glass roofs, and you want a magnetic roof that functions as a ground plane for your antenna, why don't you just bond a sheet of metal, like every other car has, to the top surface of the glass using a bedding/bonding compound? There are plenty that are removeable, but If you use Sikaflex 5200, it ain't going anywhere.

I don't see what the big deal is.

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