Help. Why not the Rivian?

[Gundo]

I’m an early reservation holder, around 50k. Live in Connecticut so nowhere close to CA or TX. I’ve been a happy waiter, like so many. Have a model Y, have a couple power walls and a solar array. So I get it, mostly.

And I watch these threads closely. But with low range expectations and our needs, I’m struggling to justify the cost and tradeoffs of the CT. ?

As big skiers, we drive to Vermont most weekends all winter. 180 miles each way. Temps can can be low, 5 degrees not uncommon, and 10 below some mornings is not uncommon. And a lot of weekends, we are plunging far deeper to remote parts of Vermont for ski races. Elevation change from about 500 ft to 2,200 for most trips.

We’ve got a garage and home charger at both ends of trip.

Charging infrastructure in VT (and CT too) is really quite limited at this point. If you’re happy with slow crowded charging stations (if working) that a few generous ski hills have put up, I suppose things are workable. But barely.

So really, range and infrastructure is a huge issue for me. 400 to 500 miles as promised was keeping me on list and prevented me from going another way. I really do feel misled, like so many.

I’ve read all about pending revised 4680 chemistry and perhaps 10% to 20% longer range coming soon.
But jeez, if my order comes up (maybe any day now) I’m really debating taking a pass and pulling trigger on Rivian.

Out of Spec tests have everyone’s attention, and while not perfect, what else do we have to go on?

facts:

250 miles for CT, 290 for Rivian.

135kWh pack in R1T vs 120kWh pack in CT

2.2 miles/kwh R1T DM AT tires (34”)
Vs
2.0 miles/kwh CT AT tires (35”)


What am I missing?

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[Darth abbott]

I’m an early reservation holder, around 50k. Live in Connecticut so nowhere close to CA or TX. I’ve been a happy waiter, like so many. Have a model Y, have a couple power walls and a solar array. So I get it, mostly.

And I watch these threads closely. But with low range expectations and our needs, I’m struggling to justify the cost and tradeoffs of the CT. ?

As big skiers, we drive to Vermont most weekends all winter. 180 miles each way. Temps can can be low, 5 degrees not uncommon, and 10 below some mornings is not uncommon. And a lot of weekends, we are plunging far deeper to remote parts of Vermont for ski races. Elevation change from about 500 ft to 2,200 for most trips.

We’ve got a garage and home charger at both ends of trip.

Charging infrastructure in VT (and CT too) is really quite limited at this point. If you’re happy with slow crowded charging stations (if working) that a few generous ski hills have put up, I suppose things are workable. But barely.

So really, range and infrastructure is a huge issue for me. 400 to 500 miles as promised was keeping me on list and prevented me from going another way. I really do feel misled, like so many.

I’ve read all about pending revised 4680 chemistry and perhaps 10% to 20% longer range coming soon.
But jeez, if my order comes up (maybe any day now) I’m really debating taking a pass and pulling trigger on Rivian.

Out of Spec tests have everyone’s attention, and while not perfect, what else do we have to go on?

facts:

250 miles for CT, 290 for Rivian.

135kWh pack in R1T vs 120kWh pack in CT

2.2 miles/kwh R1T DM AT tires (34”)
Vs
2.0 miles/kwh CT AT tires (35”)


What am I missing?

These people getting under 200 mile range are driving 85 mph. That is a massive drain on power. Even in those cold temps if you are driving 65 or less you should be fine. Especially with chargers on both sides. Also preconditioning before you leave while plugged in will help.

Everyone is freaking out over the range numbers like it's something new. All Teslas and all electric vehicles for that matter need to be driven correctly to achieve good range. It you try and tow with a cyber truck at 85 it will probably get sub 100 mile range, but if you drive on a 2 lane road at 55 - 65 you very well could get 350 plus (not while towing).

 

[cvalue13]

What am I missing?

Mainly: that Tesla has not released the 2019 “Tri-Motor”, and doesn’t appear like it will anytime soon.

What Tesla has released in ‘23 is the equivalent of (A) the 2019 “Dual” motor, and (B) a “Plaid” version of the ‘19 Dual Motor, and (C) a preview of a ‘25 “Single Motor”


The 2019 “Tri Motor” doesn’t appear set for release anytime soon. If ever. The “Plaid” plus Range Extender + future battery chemistry improvements may be as close as Tesla ever intends to get.


So, back to the question of what you’re “missing”:

If you didn’t order or need the ‘19 “Dual Motor,” then Tesla hasn’t yet released the CT trim you wanted - and might never.

Do with that clarification/framing what you will.

 

[Woodrick]

I'm expecting that the Cybertruck is going to match the Model Y AWD range closely. It will take a little longer to charge though, just as a pickup requires more fuel than a Camry.
From what I am hearing and seeing, the Rivian is smaller and less capacity than the Cybertruck.
I guess I'd say that the Rivian is more of a gentleman's truck.

While it is relatively easy to spot a Rivian on the road, it does look a lot like any other pickup. That's not something that the Cybertruck is going to be blamed for, for many years. That's definitely a plus and a minus, which ever floats your boat.

Also remember that Tesla still leads the industry in adding features.

 

[Strykerwsu]

The R1's are a great vehicle. My T has had no issues in first year and has been best vehicle ever owned. Once have access to Supercharger network this year removed only issue the charging network. It gets the range promised and no we know the charging curve isn't that bad.

Interior is nicer on it as well but backseat area is my only issue. Family of 5 is cramped. Also super thin body panels and crazy repair bills on minor accidents has me concerned on insurance going forward. The gear tunnel is amazing and while the bed is small but has taken care of most of my needs.

I was really hoping the CT would have amazing range and curve to make it a no brainer moving forward on losing the few items that really makes the R1T standout but that definitely hasn't happened. I will likely live with both for 6 months and then make decision.

I will add Rivian has made it a way better truck over the year with updates and I'm sure Tesla will do the same.

 

[mfg310]

I’m an early reservation holder, around 50k. Live in Connecticut so nowhere close to CA or TX. I’ve been a happy waiter, like so many. Have a model Y, have a couple power walls and a solar array. So I get it, mostly.

And I watch these threads closely. But with low range expectations and our needs, I’m struggling to justify the cost and tradeoffs of the CT. ?

As big skiers, we drive to Vermont most weekends all winter. 180 miles each way. Temps can can be low, 5 degrees not uncommon, and 10 below some mornings is not uncommon. And a lot of weekends, we are plunging far deeper to remote parts of Vermont for ski races. Elevation change from about 500 ft to 2,200 for most trips.

We’ve got a garage and home charger at both ends of trip.

Charging infrastructure in VT (and CT too) is really quite limited at this point. If you’re happy with slow crowded charging stations (if working) that a few generous ski hills have put up, I suppose things are workable. But barely.

So really, range and infrastructure is a huge issue for me. 400 to 500 miles as promised was keeping me on list and prevented me from going another way. I really do feel misled, like so many.

I’ve read all about pending revised 4680 chemistry and perhaps 10% to 20% longer range coming soon.
But jeez, if my order comes up (maybe any day now) I’m really debating taking a pass and pulling trigger on Rivian.

Out of Spec tests have everyone’s attention, and while not perfect, what else do we have to go on?

facts:

250 miles for CT, 290 for Rivian.

135kWh pack in R1T vs 120kWh pack in CT

2.2 miles/kwh R1T DM AT tires (34”)
Vs
2.0 miles/kwh CT AT tires (35”)


What am I missing?

Depends what your needs are…… do you need something right now? Then, I agree that Rivian is the better answer. If you don’t need something right now, then the Cybertruck with the range extender pack seems like it will handily beat out the Rivian in range.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

As a sanity check when the Cybertruck pricing went up I went out and priced an R1T and R1S. With the larger battery pack they were still more expensive than the Cybertruck. I drive about the speed limit everywhere so I am sure that I can make it to the next Tesla SC no matter where I have gone so far. I do like the Rivians a lot but they have to use SC networks that are just not trustworthy so I would not personally want to buy one until they are actually using the NACS and that is another year at least. And of course there are all of the other things that differentiate a Rivian from a Tesla that favor a Tesla. Bottom line for me as a skier/snowboarder/snowshoer is that I have not been happy with the attitudes of many skiers/snowboarders with respect to respecting my vehicle, so the ultra hard stainless exterior is a major win for Tesla for me.

 

[Woodrick]

The R1's are a great vehicle. My T has had no issues in first year and has been best vehicle ever owned. Once have access to Supercharger network this year removed only issue the charging network. It gets the range promised and no we know the charging curve isn't that bad.

Interior is nicer on it as well but backseat area is my only issue. Family of 5 is cramped. Also super thin body panels and crazy repair bills on minor accidents has me concerned on insurance going forward. The gear tunnel is amazing and while the bed is small but has taken care of most of my needs.

I was really hoping the CT would have amazing range and curve to make it a no brainer moving forward on losing the few items that really makes the R1T standout but that definitely hasn't happened. I will likely live with both for 6 months and then make decision.

I will add Rivian has made it a way better truck over the year with updates and I'm sure Tesla will do the same.

I'd like to bring up the closed Rivian Charging network. It is kind of a crappy move to have 800V CCS chargers that are closed to everyone else.

 

[CyberMoose]

So one thing to keep in mind is that we've had a total of one real range test with the Cybertruck where they made an effort to keep it as realistic as possible. Generally a sample size of 1 is frowned upon in the statistic community. Will it be different to the average in the future? no clue. Will Tesla make improvements? still no clue. Either way I don't see a massive difference.

Another thing to think about is that the Rivian doing more with a bigger battery doesn't mean it will be better in every situation when it comes to range.

This is actually something that I saw as a silver lining when we didn't get the 500 mile Cybertruck. The 500 mile Cybertruck was almost certainly going to be a 200kwh battery, or maybe even bigger. That 200kwh battery on a roadtrip is going to increase the time it takes the charge at each stop. This would be annoying when you get a 150kwh charger or even get stuck with slower public chargers.

On top of that, the majority of people (myself included), don't actually have a need for 500 miles of range. I would have liked it, but in reality, I would just be lugging around a massive heavy battery, making it less efficient, when I might only actually benefit from that range a few times a year. I would actually prefer to save some weight and deal with an extra charge on those rare occasions. This might be unfortunate for someone who actually has a need for that range, for distance and/or towing, it might even cause them to go buy an ICE truck, but I think this will be best for the majority.

And the Rivian and Cybertruck, while both electric trucks, aren't actually direct competitors. Even the ford F150 lightning doesn't feel like one.

Ford made their truck more with actual workers in mind and people that need to tow (even though range is limited). Though most likely their #1 buyers are just ford truck owners already.

Rivian made their truck and SUV for the adventurer. They advertised this well, they have some amazing features for these things. Though I think the Rivian really shines as a family vehicle with it's easy access to various storage options for any occasion.

And the Cybertruck...well it's the Cybertruck. Our crowd wanted something unique, something cool, something advanced, and something that's just really out there while also giving some utility. I think that the percentage of Cybetruck owners that use their truck as a truck will dwarf the percentage of any other model of truck.

And that's not saying everyone is the same. Maybe someone ordered the lightning because it's body on frame, or the rivian because of the independent suspension, or the Cybertruck because they ran out of fridge space for all their magnets.

Ultimately I think each truck does something better than the others and realistically...none of them beat an ICE truck at being an overall truck truck. They all just have truck capabilities that will meet the needs of the vast majority.

 

[COLAB]

I’m an early reservation holder, around 50k. Live in Connecticut so nowhere close to CA or TX. I’ve been a happy waiter, like so many. Have a model Y, have a couple power walls and a solar array. So I get it, mostly.

And I watch these threads closely. But with low range expectations and our needs, I’m struggling to justify the cost and tradeoffs of the CT. ?

As big skiers, we drive to Vermont most weekends all winter. 180 miles each way. Temps can can be low, 5 degrees not uncommon, and 10 below some mornings is not uncommon. And a lot of weekends, we are plunging far deeper to remote parts of Vermont for ski races. Elevation change from about 500 ft to 2,200 for most trips.

We’ve got a garage and home charger at both ends of trip.

Charging infrastructure in VT (and CT too) is really quite limited at this point. If you’re happy with slow crowded charging stations (if working) that a few generous ski hills have put up, I suppose things are workable. But barely.

So really, range and infrastructure is a huge issue for me. 400 to 500 miles as promised was keeping me on list and prevented me from going another way. I really do feel misled, like so many.

I’ve read all about pending revised 4680 chemistry and perhaps 10% to 20% longer range coming soon.
But jeez, if my order comes up (maybe any day now) I’m really debating taking a pass and pulling trigger on Rivian.

Out of Spec tests have everyone’s attention, and while not perfect, what else do we have to go on?

facts:

250 miles for CT, 290 for Rivian.

135kWh pack in R1T vs 120kWh pack in CT

2.2 miles/kwh R1T DM AT tires (34”)
Vs
2.0 miles/kwh CT AT tires (35”)


What am I missing?

Rivian ???? ?‍

 

[Strykerwsu]

I'd like to bring up the closed Rivian Charging network. It is kind of a crappy move to have 800V CCS chargers that are closed to everyone else.

Uh, isn't there another company that was closed for about 10 years so others decided to go a different direction? They are opening it up as the others are now as well.

 

[Outdoors]

For me it is the Dyson hairdryer headlights. Just can't

 

[lowtek]

I’m an early reservation holder, around 50k. Live in Connecticut so nowhere close to CA or TX. I’ve been a happy waiter, like so many. Have a model Y, have a couple power walls and a solar array. So I get it, mostly.

And I watch these threads closely. But with low range expectations and our needs, I’m struggling to justify the cost and tradeoffs of the CT. ?

As big skiers, we drive to Vermont most weekends all winter. 180 miles each way. Temps can can be low, 5 degrees not uncommon, and 10 below some mornings is not uncommon. And a lot of weekends, we are plunging far deeper to remote parts of Vermont for ski races. Elevation change from about 500 ft to 2,200 for most trips.

We’ve got a garage and home charger at both ends of trip.

Charging infrastructure in VT (and CT too) is really quite limited at this point. If you’re happy with slow crowded charging stations (if working) that a few generous ski hills have put up, I suppose things are workable. But barely.

So really, range and infrastructure is a huge issue for me. 400 to 500 miles as promised was keeping me on list and prevented me from going another way. I really do feel misled, like so many.

I’ve read all about pending revised 4680 chemistry and perhaps 10% to 20% longer range coming soon.
But jeez, if my order comes up (maybe any day now) I’m really debating taking a pass and pulling trigger on Rivian.

Out of Spec tests have everyone’s attention, and while not perfect, what else do we have to go on?

facts:

250 miles for CT, 290 for Rivian.

135kWh pack in R1T vs 120kWh pack in CT

2.2 miles/kwh R1T DM AT tires (34”)
Vs
2.0 miles/kwh CT AT tires (35”)


What am I missing?

Try the Rivian forum for the bias to fall your way.

 

[Coltpete]

For me it is the Dyson hairdryer headlights. Just can't

I also can't get over this. Don't know why they had to do that

 

[Woodrick]

Uh, isn't there another company that was closed for about 10 years so others decided to go a different direction? They are opening it up as the others are now as well.

Tesla has made the standard open for many years and have invited others to use it, nobody wanted to. They didn't want to work with the competition who was leaps and bounds ahead.

Rivian was using the CCS plug and made it proprietary, unlike the other CCS companies.

But I guess that the real reality is that Rivian just couldn't figure out how to bill anyone, seeing that they just recently figured it out. But AFAIK, still closed to others.

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