Highway Charging While Driving

[ςyb3®tЯμ¢kℓ|gh†n!ng]

This would be a complete and absolute waste of energy and I'm guessing Tesla thought about this and came to the same conclusion. As somebody else on this thread mentioned, it's a PR stunt and has little real-life value yet. There is a reason your phones don't charge through the air just yet. It's doable, just not efficient. Electric vehicles require substantially more energy than a phone.

There are people working on this, and the following paper discusses increasing efficiency across distances using different coil patterns.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211379720319367
But I'm not sure if the coil system they discuss applies when the amount of energy you are looking to transfer is several magnitudes greater.
Also since the electric motors in the vehicles also use similar principles, you don't really know how this is going to impact their performance when trying to wirelessly send 1000s of kWhs. It's possible, the receiver they describe may protect the motors in that instance?

Another thought is, instead of charging from the bottom, would it be possible to charge from the sides where the motors are perpendicular to the charging apparatus, using the motors themselves? They have regenerative capabilities built-in so the components are built-in. You just need to induce a current in the motors in the same direction as that functionality (again inefficient but it might be easier and more cost effective to put up movable charging barriers vs digging up roads everywhere).

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[Crissa]

Uhh, the most popular phones do charge wirelessly. And all new Tesla vehicles have these wireless style phone chargers installed in them.

And they don't need to send 'thousands' of kilowatts. Only a fraction of a kW is needed; most vehicles operate between 3 to 5 miles per kilowatt. So like, a third of a kilowatt.

-Crissa

 

[ajdelange]

My phone does charge through the air as does my toothbrush and as do a couple of cars and trucks. Charging inductively at L2 rates with 90% efficiency has been demonstrated in both commercial and private vehicles and several manufacturers claim to be a year or so away from offering systems. There is no question as to the technical feasibility. The real question is as to whether the additional technical complexity (costs) are justified by the advantages.

 

[Crissa]

There's also the question whether they'll get their efficiency claims in practice. Misalignment can waste energy.

But we can't know that without trying.

-Crissa

 

[Cybertruckee]

Just had to come to the Cybertruck forum and throw a jab, eh?

With all the jabs I got being promised again and again of production dates and now the wait for Cybertruck going 3 years, I had to counter-punch, do an upper cut, then kick the gonads, when I can, often on every opportunity..

Doing it too offline giving feedback to fellow activist stockholders.

 

[Cybertruckee]

Completely a PR stunt. Wireless charging on a 1 MILE stretch. Would not be able to add even .000001% to any battery even if you drive extremely painfully slow at 1 mph, which means you spent an entire hour driving the 1 mile stretch.

Never heard of proof of concept and scaling it bigger when found feasible?

 

[ςyb3®tЯμ¢kℓ|gh†n!ng]

Uhh, the most popular phones do charge wirelessly. And all new Tesla vehicles have these wireless style phone chargers installed in them.

And they don't need to send 'thousands' of kilowatts. Only a fraction of a kW is needed; most vehicles operate between 3 to 5 miles per kilowatt. So like, a third of a kilowatt.

-Crissa

Wirelessly yes, but you have to leave your phone ON the charging station, not in your hand, right? Do you expect cars to lower suspension and fold up their tires so that the car sits flat against the road?

 

[Crissa]

Wirelessly yes, but you have to leave your phone ON the charging station, not in your hand, right? Do you expect cars to lower suspension and fold up their tires so that the car sits flat against the road?

As you pointed out, few cars change height.

Which is why this isn't like 'a phone in your hand'. They just aim the signal to a standard clearance and all the charger receiver coils would be installed at that height.

It might be easier on tall vehicles for the receiver to lower down, just like a pantograph receiver extends out. It's just a matter of springs at that point. Same height. Just like your phone sitting on a charging pad.

-Crissa

 

[ajdelange]

Wirelessly yes, but you have to leave your phone ON the charging station, not in your hand, right? Do you expect cars to lower suspension and fold up their tires so that the car sits flat against the road?

No because that is not required. A foot or two separation is fine. Clearly you do not have a clue as to how this actually works. Perhaps it would be better to leave the engineering to the engineers.

 

[CyberGus]

if they find a way to make a buck and/or can charge while driving, then more power to them.

I see what you did there

 

[Zabhawkin]

Uhh, the most popular phones do charge wirelessly. And all new Tesla vehicles have these wireless style phone chargers installed in them.

And they don't need to send 'thousands' of kilowatts. Only a fraction of a kW is needed; most vehicles operate between 3 to 5 miles per kilowatt. So like, a third of a kilowatt.

-Crissa

You are thinking kilowatt hours. If your car takes 300wh to drive a mile at 60mph (1 minute per mile) it is drawing 18kw from the battery pack.

From an earlier post there is a difference between an electric field and a magnetic field. When you rub a balloon on your head and your hair stands on end that is an electric field. A magnetic field is used in motors and picking up ferrous metals. (and a whole slew of other things).

For the rest you cant charge and discharge. If you are "charging" while driving you will either be charging or discharging depending on how much you are charging vs how much power is being drawn by the motors. If you are drawing more than you are charging you are drawing power from the batteries. If you are drawing less than you are charging then the batteries are getting charged.

Inductively charging a car is possible, but I doubt it will be efficient or practical, especially on the cost added per mile of freeway.

I don't see how using an electric field would be able to deliver enough energy without the risk of frying anyone who walked into the field.

 

[Crissa]

You are thinking kilowatt hours. If your car takes 300wh to drive a mile at 60mph (1 minute per mile) it is drawing 18kw from the battery pack.

Doh, yeah, I was off put by the 'thousands of kwh' and screwed that math up. 11kw is about thirty miles an hour, you'd need 22kw for 60.

From an earlier post there is a difference between an electric field and a magnetic field. When you rub a balloon on your head and

...you're still making magnetic fields. They're just not aligned. There's both flux and spin and I didn't finish the advanced courses, also I tend to use the wrong words for things. I can draw a diagram, though!

For the rest you cant charge and discharge.

That's a silly statement because:

If you are drawing more than you are charging you are drawing power from the batteries. If you are drawing less than you are charging then the batteries are getting charged.

I don't see how using an electric field would be able to deliver enough energy without the risk of frying anyone who walked into the field.

That's not how fields work, though. To induce a charge in another object, it needs a coil that's aligned. And Humans don't.

-Crissa

 

[ajdelange]

It is efficient (90%). Whether it is practical or no remains to be seen. The people making inductive chargers certainly seem to think it is.

 

[Zabhawkin]

...you're still making magnetic fields. They're just not aligned. There's both flux and spin and I didn't finish the advanced courses, also I tend to use the wrong words for things. I can draw a diagram, though!


-Crissa

A charged plate has an electrical field, for it to make a magnetic field you would need to be flowing electrons.

You can have both an electric and magnetic field like you have around power lines.

To move charge you need a conductive plate, sheet or wire in parallel. Capacitors are built using this principal, two thin foil sheets wrapped with a thin dielectric (insulator) between them. The only time you would have a magnetic field is when they are charging.

Using magnetic fields yes you need a coil that is lined up properly.

As far as the efficiency here is a better source that claims 94% efficiency so it does show promise, last I read they were only at 60%.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/wireless-charging-tech-to-keep-evs-on-the-go

 

[CyberGus]

I don't see how using an electric field would be able to deliver enough energy without the risk of frying anyone who walked into the field.

It depends on the frequency. You can stand unharmed next to a FM antenna pumping out megawatts, but a 0.001 megawatt microwave oven will promptly cook you dead.

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