How many CyberTruck prospective buyers have even driven a Lightning or a Rivian?

[HaulingAss]

F150L at a Tesla Supercharger using the Magic Dock adapter.

The F-150 is taking up two stalls.

I don't want to be "that guy".

I welcome the Magic Dock and all, brilliant solution, but the user experience is like putting lipstick on a pig. Plugging an EV into a Tesla Supercharger does not make it a Tesla. Some people still don't get that.

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[Alpine]

I looked at F150L at dealer lot: prices starting at $89k is major nogo for lame EV version of ICE.
Then I looked at $65k F150L PRO that you cannot buy, and it doesnt have cheap plastic lightbar across the hood, but I already have Tesla wall charger and I dont want to deal with adapters.
And then i though about non-existent charging network for Ford so even mid-range trips within the state are out of q-n. That was final nail in any non-Tesla EV options.
never considered Rivian, too small, dorky looking and again - no charging network.
I also considered Audi Q8 etron, but only as local daily commuter.

You realize you will get the $7500 off on the ford point of sale in 2 weeks?

I don't know where you live, but here in texas, you can get a f150l xlt with big battery at 67k after rebate. My local dealer had 20 of them last week

There are no mark ups! They have too many trucks not enough buyers

 

[Keeney]

The F-150 is taking up two stalls.

I don't want to be "that guy".

I welcome the Magic Dock and all, brilliant solution, but the user experience is like putting lipstick on a pig. Plugging an EV into a Tesla Supercharger does not make it a Tesla. Some people still don't get that.

A courteous user would of course use the end stall or move out of the way if somebody else showed up and needed that slot.

There are rumors of future Superchargers having longer cords and also of adapters becoming available with cord extensions.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

10,000 CCS Fast Charger in the US.
15,000 more tesla Supercharges coming available early in 2024, long before you will likely get a CyberTruck.
37 Tesla Supercharger sites you can already use with CCS EVs right now.
CT drive train is not so much more efficient as the truck is just smaller and more aerodynamic. Mostly due to the sloped back and bed cover.

You say 10,000 CCS Fast Chargers in the US. How many of them work at any given time? If I am driving cross country, especially in the winter, I have to have 100% confidence that where I stop the chargers are working. Not 50% confidence. We may differ in that way. So far every time I drive more than 100 miles away from home, if I go to a Tesla SC there might be 1 out of 8 that is disfunctional in a location where I am the only one charging, and in populated areas the number is lower.

I think that both Rivian and Lightning are great trucks, but until the CCS SCs are 98% reliable or they are capable of using the Tesla SC network, I would not buy one. My truck has to be used for everything (local and travel).

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Curious what drives "don't want an F150"? Just want it to look different? New? Or is there some functional difference between the CT and the F150 that is a non-starter (beside the mentioned CCS fast charging, charging speed and Ford dealers)? The specs on the F150L Lariat and CT AWD are neck and neck...

The ultra tough stainless skin is a must-have for me. I live a fewe hundred yards from the pacific ocean and it eats steel for lunch. I am tired of it, and I am tired of having people's doors ding mine. I don't care what it looks like.

 

[Keeney]

The F-150 is taking up two stalls.
I don't want to be "that guy".

There are rumors of future Superchargers having longer cords and also of adapters becoming available with cord extensions.

So I was chatting with the A2Z company that is making one of the adapters. Asked them about an extension cord for DC charging. They replied, yes they are also working on an extension cord:

​

Looking for an adapter for my CCS Ford Lightning for Tesla Superhcarging. I know you have one aleady. But the problem is the cord length because the Ford Lightning charge port is forward on the driver side just in front of the door.​

Any chance you could make an adapter with a 6 or 8 ft extension for high power DC fast charging?​

​

A2Z EV​

Hi there. We are finishing up a DC extension cord which will be 3 to 9 ft. It should be available early 2024. We are doing safety testings.​

 

[CyberGus]

Any chance you could make an adapter with a 6 or 8 ft extension for high power DC fast charging?

The problem with extending DCFC is that SC cables are actively cooled, which the extension will lack. It will need a very large gauge to handle large current passively.

 

[Keeney]

The problem with extending DCFC is that SC cables are actively cooled, which the extension will lack. It will need a very large gauge to handle large current passively.

For just a few feet, the larger wire is likely simpler and cheaper.
250kW at 400v will need at most 3/4" diameter copper. 6 ft x 2 = apx 20 lbs of copper. At $4/lb that = $80 raw metal cost.

 

[CyberGus]

For just a few feet, the larger wire is likely simpler and cheaper.
250kW at 400v will need at most 3/4" diameter copper. 6 ft x 2 = apx 20 lbs of copper. At $4/lb that = $80 raw metal cost.

Umm, 0.75” isn’t wire, that’s a busbar lol

 

[HaulingAss]

For just a few feet, the larger wire is likely simpler and cheaper.
250kW at 400v will need at most 3/4" diameter copper. 6 ft x 2 = apx 20 lbs of copper. At $4/lb that = $80 raw metal cost.

20 lbs. of copper in every single Lightning that wants to use Tesla's charging network, simply because Ford decided to be different from Tesla when it came to locating their charge port door?

Not good. Ford is trying to reduce the cost of entry, not require each customer to buy 20 lbs. of unneeded copper!

There is a reason Tesla is so successful, it's because they know how to optimize their decisions, based upon the real world. They knew there would hundreds of thousands of fast DC chargers and they needed to keep the cords short to reduce buildout and replacement costs and make the charging more efficient. If charging losses can be reduced by 30%, due to cables that are half as long, that adds up to a lot of savings.

Ford and other manufacturers put their charge ports everywhere except for where Tesla had already decided was best, simply to isolate Tesla from the rest of the industry. That was back when they actually believed they could put Tesla out of business, when the time was right, simply by building cheap EVs in high volumes.

Now that they have caved in and joined the network Tesla built, their new EVs will have the charge port in the location chosen by Tesla over a decade ago (or perhaps the passenger side front which is also compatible).

 

[HaulingAss]

Umm, 0.75” isn’t wire, that’s a busbar lol

I think it was Colonel Mustard with the copper busbar, in the Study.

 

[Keeney]

Umm, 0.75” isn’t wire, that’s a busbar lol

About the diameter of my pinky.
Obviously not solid copper.
The CT and every EV already has wire like that in it to connect the charge port, battery, and motors.

20 lbs. of copper in every single Lightning that wants to use Tesla's charging network, simply because Ford decided to be different from Tesla when it came to locating their charge port door?

20lbs was an upper-bound estimate with a good 2x overkill factor. And it was for 250KW. Lightning only charges at up to 150kW, so a better-optimized Lightning-specific or built-in extension cable could be down around 6 lbs.

Tesla's decision to put the charge port on the far back corner might have been good for shorter length sedans. But now every CT has to have enough wire inside to reach the back of the cargo bed. Notice how they made it just far back enough to reach with only a few inches of slack, but not all the way?

Its also forces a vehicle with bad rear sightlines to have to back in to charge. Will be interesting to see if the stainless tailgate stays dent-free when somebody backs into a Supercharger.

 

[Keeney]

(or perhaps the passenger side front which is also compatible).

Passenger side would suck in regards to convenience for home-charging.

 

[Keeney]

So I was chatting with the A2Z company that is making one of the adapters. Asked them about an extension cord for DC charging. They replied, yes they are also working on an extension cord:

​

Looking for an adapter for my CCS Ford Lightning for Tesla Superhcarging. I know you have one aleady. But the problem is the cord length because the Ford Lightning charge port is forward on the driver side just in front of the door.​

Any chance you could make an adapter with a 6 or 8 ft extension for high power DC fast charging?​

​

A2Z EV​

Hi there. We are finishing up a DC extension cord which will be 3 to 9 ft. It should be available early 2024. We are doing safety testings.​

Already on their website as "coming soon":
https://a2zevshop.com/products/tesla-nacs-dc-supercharger-extension-cord

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