vertigo3pc

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do we get the customer get the rebate or does Tesla take it?
The rebate goes to Tesla to our benefit. So when you're buying the car, they take the rebate when the purchase is made, and that money then goes to reduce the cost of the car.
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vertigo3pc

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I hope you are right, but I doubt this will happen. The issue is they are including things like different tires and items on the truck. If they just did accessories, it would have qualified. Tesla could have given use the ability to get a tax credit, but they decided to just have additions to the truck to not qualify the vehicle.
I promise, I'm not try to be contrary or argumentative. My theory is that the "Founder's Edition" is a limited access model which the MSRP base could be the AWD CT with some premium options gratis for the long time reservation holders. If you have the ability to order an FE, then it could be that specific model has an MSRP of $79k with $20k of software upgrades bundled against the premiums that are included.

I'm just saying that I think Tesla knows they have an uphill battle with this new CT pricing, and with the new incentives in place to be taken at point of sale, I just don't know why they wouldn't do their customers the solid of helping convince them to spend money on this truck by enabling the incentive. Of course, all will be revealed soon...
 

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if Tesla apply the $7.5k at point of sale, do we get the customer get the rebate or does Tesla take it?
You tell Tesla that you will qualify for the full tax credit and they apply $7500 towards the down payment on your vehicle. If it turns out when you file your Schedule 3 (?) that you do not qualify for the credit, you have to pay the IRS the $7500 that you didn't "withhold" (apply) towards your 2024 tax bill.
 

cvalue13

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Also, I will maintain my footing on this hill that I think Tesla will introduce some fancy footwork that retains the Founder's Series Cybertruck under the IRS max, and in line with what they require. Since the AWD CT base will technically qualify for the $7,500 incentive, I think Tesla is spending this time trying to find loopholes in the incentive that lets them claim it.

The purchase order we get when we ordered the Founders Series separates the two: $79k CT and $20k "Founder's Edition". So the tinfoil math is: $79k CT + $12k FSD (until Tesla OFFICIALLY acknowledges the 2019 reservation price, I don't think it comes to play as far as the IRS is concerned) + $5k Powershare (it's standard later, but if they call it software, since that's what it is, they can sneak it by; Energy Gateway costs $5,000) + $3k "Founder's Edition" software (premium connectivity is $99/yr, so 30+ years of premium connectivity, whatever else) = $99k AWD FS CT.
the AWD is 10$ from the max

the included fooormats are more than $10

to say nothing of the premium wheels and tires, etc.


there’s no fancy footwork here - there’s Tesla. simply not paying attention to this at all because the truck clearly above the limit under the law


You’ll know for certain as soon as people taking delivery after Jan 1 aren’t offered the $7,500 “on the hood” by Tesla in connection with finalizing payment.
 

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mammoth speculations again. So you guys are saying it is possible that if I order the AWD from my invite today, that it might be considered a 79,9K vehicle and although Tesla gets the 7.5K tax credit they will defer it to me barried in the extras and accessories of the FS? Sorry if I sound too stupid on this, (maybe I am)
 


Rud

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Just ordered 11276 so 20,000 on the configufabulator. Picked the awd foundation hooha. Let’s go
 

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mammoth speculations again. So you guys are saying it is possible that if I order the AWD from my invite today, that it might be considered a 79,9K vehicle and although Tesla gets the 7.5K tax credit they will defer it to me barried in the extras and accessories of the FS? Sorry if I sound too stupid on this, (maybe I am)
The "Point of Sale" credit process is an option YOU have to transfer the credit to the dealer. You also still have the option to do it like we have for the last several years and file for the credit when you file your return next year.

If you opt for the credit transfer, you provide your Tax ID (SS#) to the dealer, they enter the vehicle specifics and your ID# into the IRS online portal which tells the dealer what your expected credit will be. They apply that to the down payment then submit a file to the IRS to take custody of your credit.

Tesla only gets your credit if you sign it over to them. They can't cheat you out of it. Here's the relevant section of IRC 30D
Tesla Cybertruck Just Ordered My Foundation Series Allocation! Post Your Invitations / Order Confirmations! 🙌 Screenshot 2023-12-21 at 22.12.17
 

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The "Point of Sale" credit process is an option YOU have to transfer the credit to the dealer. You also still have the option to do it like we have for the last several years and file for the credit when you file your return next year.

If you opt for the credit transfer, you provide your Tax ID (SS#) to the dealer, they enter the vehicle specifics and your ID# into the IRS online portal which tells the dealer what your expected credit will be. They apply that to the down payment then submit a file to the IRS to take custody of your credit.

Tesla only gets your credit if you sign it over to them. They can't cheat you out of it. Here's the relevant section of IRC 30D
Screenshot 2023-12-21 at 22.12.17.png
I believe there may be JUST enough ambiguity in how the vehicle purchase contract is documented (by listing the tires, etc. as "included") to allow the taxpayer to make a reasonable position the founders edition is merely aftermarket accessories and "dealer markup" that doesn't disqualify you from the $80k vehicle price limit. If Tesla doesn't offer tax credit transfer on the Founders after Jan 1st, there still will be a process to claim the credit on your 2024 return, however you will have to be comfortable with taking a tax position contrary to what the manufacturer of the vehicle believes is correct. Also, since you'll have to report your VIN to the IRS to claim the credit, the IRS' computers will easily be able to flag any/all tax returns with CT VINs where the owner claimed the credit without transferring it at point of sale for further review by an IRS agent.

First deliveries after January 1st will be very revealing on what Tesla believes the Founders AWD CT qualifies for. Also, keep in mind that the non-Founders CT will have options packages as factory add-ons (which are itemized in the purchase contract with the associated price) that you may want to get (premium interior, A/S tires, as an example) that WILL disqualify you from the credit.
 

cvalue13

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I believe there may be JUST enough ambiguity in how the vehicle purchase contract is documented (by listing the tires, etc. as "included") to allow the taxpayer to make a reasonable position the founders edition is merely aftermarket accessories and "dealer markup" that doesn't disqualify you from the $80k vehicle price limit.
this is such an unreasonable take.

when you purchase a Lightning in the Platinum trim, the premium wheels etc are also “included.”

Maybe more to the point:

Here’s a Model S Monroney

Tesla Cybertruck Just Ordered My Foundation Series Allocation! Post Your Invitations / Order Confirmations! 🙌 BF1B1A21-BEC4-45B4-9051-DA507EA0C0F3



The things “included” are showing what comes within the AWD package pricing

not that, from the IRS’s perspective, that they’re free, or “merely aftermarket,” or somehow not within the IRS’s definition of MSRP


I mean, advise people on how to take a risk all you want of course.

but at least also lay out the consequences of taking that risk if it goes the wrong way

or do you know those?

PS: notice Tesla doesn’t do it’s normal “probable” savings tab to include the fed rebate - only the fuel savings
 
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Cyber_95

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this is such an unreasonable take.

when you purchase a Lightning in the Platinum trim, the premium wheels etc are also “included.”

Maybe more to the point:

Here’s a Model S Monroney

BF1B1A21-BEC4-45B4-9051-DA507EA0C0F3.jpeg



The things “included” are showing what comes within the AWD package pricing

not that, from the IRS’s perspective, that they’re free, or “merely aftermarket,” or somehow not within the IRS’s definition of MSRP


I mean, advise people on how to take a risk all you want of course.

but at least also lay out the consequences of taking that risk if it goes the wrong way

or do you know those?

PS: notice Tesla doesn’t do it’s normal “probable” savings tab to include the fed rebate - only the fuel savings
You bring up a good point, however notice the difference in how the items are itemized. There are specific descriptions of what the items are that are "included" and a person could believe that "included" means that it's included in the vehicle purchase price (vs. an ambiguous term like "Foundation Series" with a $20,000 amount attached to it that doesn't itemize the cost of the items included in the Foundation series.

My point is that there will still be a mechanism to claim the credit if you're inclined to assume the risk of getting audited and the credit disqualified. The chance of getting audited varies by individual, and I also made the point that if the IRS takes a position that all CT don't qualify, it'll be very easy for them to identify the tax returns that have claimed the credit on a CT.
 

cvalue13

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My point is that there will still be a mechanism to claim the credit if you're inclined to assume the risk of getting audited and the credit disqualified
not so much, come Jan. 1

“Starting January 1, 2024, credit eligibility and amount will be determined at the time of sale using the IRS Energy Credits Online website. The dealer will complete and submit the time-of-sale report online, and it will be accepted or rejected in real time. The dealer is required to provide you with a copy of the time-of-sale report, and you will need it to claim the credit.”



“A seller must provide the following information on a report to the taxpayer and to the IRS (“seller report” or “time of sale report”):

  • Name and taxpayer identification number of the seller
  • Name and taxpayer identification number of the taxpayer (only one taxpayer may be listed on the seller report; in the event of multiple owners, only the taxpayer that intends to claim the credit should be listed)
  • Vehicle identification number (VIN) of the new clean vehicle
  • Battery capacity of the new clean vehicle
  • Verification that the taxpayer is the original user of the new clean vehicle
  • The date of the sale and the sale price of the vehicle
  • Maximum credit allowable for the new clean vehicle being sold
  • For sales after December 31, 2023, the amount of any transfer credit applied to the purchase
  • A declaration under penalties of perjury from the seller”

 
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Screenshot 2023-12-08 at 7.23.49 PM.png


RN 11274... Really wanted the Cyberbeast, but the range, coupled with 120k didn't make sense to me. Also, the aftermarket lightbar is the only added option exclusive to the Cyberbeast and didn't like the look of it.

FINALLY!!! May you all get your allocations soon! I also put down a $500 deposit for the range extender.

Edit: Non-employee, did not have a Tesla linked to this account, so it looks like they're actually going by the RN numbers, albeit prioritizing TX and CA
Did you pay the down Payment I ordered the same thing since Dec 8 tesla nothing but crickets
 

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Not sure why people think they will get a $7,500 tax credit. In 2024, due to the new battery rules, the most Tesla could get is $3,750 due to too much Chinese materials.
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