Manufacturing the Cybertruck... excited to see process for folding stainless body parts.

HaulingAss

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Specifically, the CT windshield wiper. It was an afterthought. It was left to the 11th hour of design, and creating a "neat" looking/congruent solution is making the Tesla engineers punch their pillows before falling asleep at night.
From the moment I first saw that huge, proudly erect wiper pointing unabashedly upwards, I thought that is the result of a proud engineer the morning after a frisky multi-hour session with his significant other. He was so proud of his performance and stamina the night before he wanted to endow the Cybertruck with the same kind of proud manliness he was feeling the next morning.

But you think it was the result of an engineer's restless night punching his pillow in frustration?

That's not how I see it, to me it screams "bold".

I think it'll be the thing that haters will relentlessly focus on, and will be cried about ad nauseum on the internet.
Oh, gosh, not another worried fan, concerned about aesthetic criticisms by Tesla haters. Not everyone is going to like your truck no matter what you end up driving. You have to please yourself. Tesla haters will ALWAYS find something to cry about ad nauseum on the Internet, no matter how perfect the truck. Nobody in their right mind pays them any attention because they don't matter. What matters is how well the wiper works, not whether Tesla haters say it's the work of the devil.

I think it looks bold and manly, perfect for the truck of the future. If it works as well as it looks, I'll be one happy camper. I must say, the aesthetics grew on me, just like the hard surfaces of the body took a bit of getting used to before it started to look brilliant. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
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LoneWolfO6

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The CT castings will need a new IDRA installed at GF Austin, but I'm most excited to see the process for folding stainless body parts.

WWpK4bH.gif


It's not a casting nor stamping. The steel sheets will be scored (laser-cut?) and folded like origami. To maintain production speed, it will require a whole new machine to be invented. It's never been done before at this scale.

I can't wait to see it in action!
Tesla better figure something out so not to repeate history…CT is on year two and still concept.

John DeLorean, a former GM exec and well-respected engineer, set up his own auto company in 1975 with financing totaling more than $200 million

DeLorean decided to build the car in Northern Ireland, where unemployment was high and the government offered manufacturing incentives. Delays hit and production didn't begin until 1981.

Lack of consumer interest, costly production, and unfavorable exchange rates drove the company to bankruptcy. Fewer than 9,000 vehicles were built.

money.cnn.com (1 January 2022)
 
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CyberGus

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Look
Building a home or adding stuff to a home.
Deck or Gazebo or Windows are all made out of Structural Plastic Lumber.
Wood is bad
Aluminum is bad
Steel is really really bad.
Plastic is 1000 times better material.
All new commercial aircraft we all fly in are 100% plastic.
Hope
Tesla sees the light and after a few problems with this SS switches to plastics.
I’d like to take this opportunity to welcome all our new friends from the “Plastics Council of America”
 

firsttruck

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Look
Building a home or adding stuff to a home.
Deck or Gazebo or Windows are all made out of Structural Plastic Lumber.
Wood is bad
Aluminum is bad
Steel is really really bad.
Plastic is 1000 times better material.
All new commercial aircraft we all fly in are 100% plastic.
Hope
Tesla sees the light and after a few problems with this SS switches to plastics.
I’d like to take this opportunity to welcome all our new friends from the “Plastics Council of America”

Yup, so like 1960s “Plastics Council of America” to 2020s legacy ICE auto OEMs.


Graduate Scene - Plastics
 

Crissa

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Tesla better figure something out so not to repeate history…CT is on year two and still concept.
Cybertruck is in Beta, there is a factory, and most cars sit in concept far, far longer. The EV1 was a concept car in 1990 and only given to customers in 1996. The Model S was first shown in 2009 and first delivered in 2012.

None of this is abnormal.

-Crissa
 

anionic1

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I maintain that we will not see fully origami like folded body panels. We will see folded exterior stainless exoskeleton parts. Yes some may have 2 or 3 folds, but I believe they will be adhered with a structural adhesive to interior stamped steel body panels. This is what the image below seems to show from the CT website. I think they will use lasers to groove the panels for the folds. i built a high end laser manufacturing facility ad watched one of their machines take a solid stainless rod and use lasers to turn it into a heart stent within about 1 min. Its a crazy clean process with lasers and they can get exact depths, angles etc. much better than any other type of tool.

IMO there is no reason Tesla would make the interior body panels stainless. Stainless is double the cost and simple manufacturing solutions could solve for galvanic corrosion. I could be way off but it seems that they are going out on a limb with the 3mm stainless panels and to add the additional complexity of trying to make all the interior components tie to exterior components configured in an origami style folding method seems much more complex. I believe the stainless will only be the exterior skin or exoskeleton. I have had plenty of arguments on here where people maintain that the entire body will be stainless and I am very doubtful. When I saw the truck in person there were also more butt joints in the stainless exterior than I expected. But I can understand that may improve for the production version. With the structural battery pack the floor of the CT will be the upper plate of the structural pack and that will very likely not be stainless. I think people are thinking this stainless truck will outlive the next nuclear holocaust after they used it as a boat and lived out a zombie apocalypse. Yes it will be much more durable than most vehicles and not having paint is awesome, but anyone thinking its a 100% stainless body I think is in for some disappointment.
1641229780608.png
 
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CyberGus

CyberGus

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…anyone thinking its a 100% stainless body I think is in for some disappointment.
1641229780608.png
No one said “100%”.

The purpose of 3mm stainless exoskeleton is to increase strength while reducing weight and complexity. Limiting the stainless to exterior panels would be contrary to those goals.
 

intimidator

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The CT castings will need a new IDRA installed at GF Austin, but I'm most excited to see the process for folding stainless body parts.

WWpK4bH.gif


It's not a casting nor stamping. The steel sheets will be scored (laser-cut?) and folded like origami. To maintain production speed, it will require a whole new machine to be invented. It's never been done before at this scale.

I can't wait to see it in action!
I wonder how far they are in the process.

That is one helluva challenge. Can it even be done? Elon saying "we are aiming for Cybertruck production in 2023" is a little disheartening. Aiming for? That doesn't mean it will happen in 2023. He is hoping for 2023. Could be later.
 

Crissa

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Elon saying "we are aiming for Cybertruck production in 2023" is a little disheartening. Aiming for? That doesn't mean it will happen in 2023. He is hoping for 2023. Could be later.
That's a misquote. He said 'volume production' aka 'the factory ramping up at full tilt'.

For instance, the Model S wasn't able to reach volume production in 2021. But the Model Y and Model 3 increased their outputs.

-Crissa
 

Jstoltz54

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Aida makes some heavy duty metal forming equipment, some large crates with their name on them arrived at GT recently. May or may not be the Origami machines. So if one might keep up with a 20k run rate and you want 400k you just need 20 machines. Space is no issue, only economics.
 

HaulingAss

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I maintain that we will not see fully origami like folded body panels. We will see folded exterior stainless exoskeleton parts. Yes some may have 2 or 3 folds, but I believe they will be adhered with a structural adhesive to interior stamped steel body panels. This is what the image below seems to show from the CT website. I think they will use lasers to groove the panels for the folds. i built a high end laser manufacturing facility ad watched one of their machines take a solid stainless rod and use lasers to turn it into a heart stent within about 1 min. Its a crazy clean process with lasers and they can get exact depths, angles etc. much better than any other type of tool.

IMO there is no reason Tesla would make the interior body panels stainless. Stainless is double the cost and simple manufacturing solutions could solve for galvanic corrosion. I could be way off but it seems that they are going out on a limb with the 3mm stainless panels and to add the additional complexity of trying to make all the interior components tie to exterior components configured in an origami style folding method seems much more complex. I believe the stainless will only be the exterior skin or exoskeleton. I have had plenty of arguments on here where people maintain that the entire body will be stainless and I am very doubtful. When I saw the truck in person there were also more butt joints in the stainless exterior than I expected. But I can understand that may improve for the production version. With the structural battery pack the floor of the CT will be the upper plate of the structural pack and that will very likely not be stainless. I think people are thinking this stainless truck will outlive the next nuclear holocaust after they used it as a boat and lived out a zombie apocalypse. Yes it will be much more durable than most vehicles and not having paint is awesome, but anyone thinking its a 100% stainless body I think is in for some disappointment.
1641229780608.png
You admit that it won't have paint and that's a big benefit but then you say they will use regular steel. That makes no sense. Regular steel needs to be galvanized and coated. The way this is done in the auto industry is by hot-dipping and spraying, two very expensive processes that would be avoided by avoiding the use of regular steel. Stainless steel can be stamped without issue as long as it hasn't been hardened first so I suspect the stamped parts around the doors will be made of unhardened stainless steel.

We will know soon enough.
 

firsttruck

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What is "Cold Rolling" Stainless Steel and Other Metals? | Ulbrich
https://www.ulbrich.com/blog/what-is-cold-rolling-stainless-steel-and-other-metals/

.....
During the cold rolling process, when the metal is put under mechanical stress, it causes a permanent change to the crystalline structure of the metal. This causes an increase in its strength and often improves corrosion resistance. Along with improving its surface finish, another advantage of cold rolling is better dimensional accuracy.

cold-rolling.png
 

firsttruck

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Aida makes some heavy duty metal forming equipment, some large crates with their name on them arrived at GT recently. May or may not be the Origami machines. So if one might keep up with a 20k run rate and you want 400k you just need 20 machines. Space is no issue, only economics.
-----------

Arrival of Aida equipment at this late date could be noteworthy if this was first time Aida has ever arrived at Austin. If Aida stuff arrived before then this could just be more stuff for Model Y.

Is this the first time Aida equipment has arrived?

Was the drone camera able to get a picture of the product model code?

Aida does not make press brakes for bending sheet metal.

Aida makes a stamping press type called "servo press" that seems to be able to handle stamping of fairly thick cold-rolled stainless steel and other ultra high-strength steels. These servo presses handle that type of material much better than regular mechanical/hydraulic type stamping presses because the servo press type can vary the pressing speed and pressure amount multiple times during the press stroke. Using just the right amount of speed & pressure can prevent cracking the part & also extend die life while still having a significant production speed advantage. Some customers are using servo presses on 4.5mm high-strength steel and 5mm stainless steel.

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Aida America - Servo Presses, AIDA DSF Series Industry Leading Stamping Technology, From 80 - 3,500 Tons.
AIDA introduced the world's first direct drive servo stamping presses in 2002. Since that time, AIDA has continued to maintain the position of technology leader in developing servoforming presses. The AIDA DSF Series (Direct Drive Servo Former) servo presses represent the pinnacle of advanced engineering and manufacturing in the metalforming and stamping press industries. Throughout the world AIDA servo presses produce countless parts across many sectors and industries. From the demanding applications of high strength and ultra high strength steels and aluminums in the automotive industry, to the incredibly precise tolerances needed for the aerospace and medical industries, and for parts of all shapes, sizes and production volumes in between, AIDA servo presses enable manufacturers to produce high quality parts consistently and efficiently.
https://www.aida-global.com/servo-presses/

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AIDA-Tech White Papers Vol. 6 - Servo Driven Mechanical Presses
https://www.aida-global.com/aida-te...da-tech-white-papers/index.cfm&type=AIDA-Tech

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Aida Global - Clips and Clamps DSF-N2-3000
Stamping Journal Mar-Apr-2021
By Kate Bachman
https://www.aida-global.com/custome...DSF-N2-3000-Stamping-Journal-Mar-Apr-2021.pdf
.....
Clips and Clamps Industries stamps a part from a 5mm stainless steel material. When making the parts on 300-ton mechanical press, soon the press broke. The press's clutch burned out (cost $60,000 to rebuild clutch).

When making the part the 300-ton mechanical press also had other severe problems (excessive vibration felt more than 300ft away from press, and short life of forming dies).

Replaced mechanical press with AIDA 330-ton servo press got much better results (did not break the machine, much less vibration, much longer die life, and unexpectedly also a better quality formed product).

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Aida Global - Contract manufacturer boosts throughput, solves HSS processing problems and quotes new work with servoforming technology
FF Journal
2020 Oct
https://www.aida-global.com/custome...sified-DSF-N2-3000-FFJournal-October-2020.pdf

.....
Problem solved The DSF Direct Drive 330-ton servo press system was installed at Engle Diversified in late 2019 and was operating just two weeks later. It runs cold-rolled, galvanized, stainless and high-strength steels.

“We needed more coil capacity because our automotive applications are taking us into 7-gauge (4.6 mm) high-strength steel,” Rubin says.

.....
Way of the future
The manufacturer has shifted some mechanical press work to the servo machine as well. “We can blank parts on the servo press up to 12 in. by 18 in.,” says Rubin.
“That’s why we bought a 30-in. coiler to replace our 18-in. unit. We can now quote wider material and bigger parts.”

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Aida Global - Pedal to the metal High-strength materials and heavier parts aren’t too tough for servoforming technology
A challenging stainless steel automotive component is no match for Aida’s direct-drive servoformer
FF Journal
BY LYNN STANLEY, SENIOR EDITOR
https://www.aida-global.com/custome...-DSF-C1-Stamping-Journal-July-August-2017.pdf

.....
What made forming the part challenging was at the intersection of punching holes nearly as small as the material thickness and very high-tensile-strength stainless steel, Foote relayed.

.....
Dan Morgan, production manager, elaborated: “The hole diameter is about 60 [thousandths of an inch] and the material is 40 [thousandths of an inch]. The rule of thumb is that it be three times the material thickness. This is nowhere near that.” “So we’re breaking the rule,” Foote added. “Stampers do that occasionally; we beef up the punches to make them extra-tough, but these clips had to be stamped out of full-hard temper stainless steel — really tough stuff.” The material’s tensile strength is 220,000 pounds per square inch (PSI). In comparison, mild cold-rolled steel is an estimated 58,000 to 80,000 PSI.

.....
A large number of automotive components — seat belt and airbag components and door hinges — have been re-specified. “We were having trouble producing these parts on our mechanical presses,” Grant says. “We have been experimenting with the direct-drive servoformer by slowing the stroke near bottom dead center to produce these parts from grade 304L, a T-300 series stainless steel austenitic, which has a minimum of 18 percent chromium and 8 percent nickel.” The result, he says, “has been consistent, superior quality parts.”

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** another company making a large servo press

ISMR visited Moretto SpA (Vicenza, Italy) to see its latest new servo press – the largest that Zani has ever built ...
2020 July
https://www.zani.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/197_pagine_1509956398_4850FacetoFace-ZANI_PH_V10.pdf

.....
this huge press extremely flexible," added Zaffaroni. "The press will be used for both production in transfer mode and for progressive die operations, stamping high-tensile steel sheet."

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