Rutrow

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Remember, supercharge station are not everywhere like gas stations.
If folks could easily add a dozen or so gallons of gas to their cars overnight, in their garage, there wouldn't be as many filling stations around.
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HaulingAss

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The statistics would disagree (and I'm only regurgitating reality from Bloomberg, Pew Research, the Federal Reserve, Forbes, etc). Reiterating that 40% "try" (assuming trying includes discipline and work as you state), and only 3-8% succeed, then it is most certainly luck. The stats are reflecting only people who are not wealthy already (I assume like the guy that said "when he is rich").

And again, this doesn't take into account race, location, and other factors reflected in economic inequality. It's luck, and any other take is denial.
You are holding on to a self-defeating narritive. If becoming wealthy is "luck" then there is no reason to try.

The fact that 40% try to become wealthy and only 1 to 2 out of 10 succeed, does not imply luck. It really is a matter of discipline and hard work and not many are willing to put in the hours and have the discipline to not overspend when young.

Don't spread false narritives.
 

jookyone

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I don't spread false narratives, I'm only regurgitating stats from the internet over 100s of articles on dozens of studies. You seem intent on defining people that "try" as not doing hard work or discipline and claim this with your own narrative and no numbers to back it up. Considering there are billions of people who don't aspire to be wealthy and have discipline and hard work, yet still don't become millionaires as a byproduct proves my claim.

Defining "luck" based on statistics is a bit objective for any system I concur, but I picked one million dollars for a reason. In the US $2.2 million is considered the benchmark for "feeling" wealthy, a number twice what I've quoted.

You can believe anything you want, but numbers don't lie. Where are yours?
 

aushaw

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Source: https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-tesla-cybertruck-launch-biggest-on-earth/
"Musk appeared for an almost-90-minute interview with reporter Andrew Ross Sorkin for the New York Times 2023 Dealbook Summit on Wednesday, during which the two talked about subjects ranging from Tesla and SpaceX to artificial intelligence (AI), the ongoing Israel-Hamas conflict, free speech and more.​
During the conversation, Musk predicted that the Thursday Cybertruck launch would be “by far” this year’s largest product launch, adding that he’s done “more than any human on Earth” for the environment by selling electric vehicles (EVs).​
[The Cybertruck event] will be the biggest product launch of anything by far on Earth this year,” Musk said during the summit. “Whether you hate me, like me or are indifferent, do you want the best car or not the best car?”"​
Tesla Cybertruck Musk says: The Cybertruck Event "will be the biggest product launch of anything by far on Earth this year.” 🙌 Cyber Truck Wait
Tesla Cybertruck Musk says: The Cybertruck Event "will be the biggest product launch of anything by far on Earth this year.” 🙌 Cyber Truck Wait
 


GuyV

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again, false dichotomy

Tesla could have merely changed its mind about the correct product specs between 2019 and now

which would mean they both (1) weren’t “lying” in 2019 (it was their genuine plan - as aspirational, untested, and early stage as it may have been), and later after changing their mind and design thesis, (2) were no longer trying to build a 500mi/HD variant (at least in the first release, if not ever)


the Model Y was originally supposed to have falcon doors. It didn’t on release. To say Tesla was necessarily either lying or the “couldnt” is to misunderstand the basics of product development

unless by “couldnt” all you mean is “discovered it wasn’t, in fact, a good idea”
Give up the weaseling, what you said was wrong.

We don't know whether they are still trying or not. I'm betting they are and we will just have to live with what they can do until they get there. I'm still quite successfully living with the range limitations of a 2013 S P85, from back in the day there were only a handful of superchargers. It's been an adventure but it doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer a 500 mile Cybertruck and I'm willing to pay for one, just like many others are, and Tesla knows that becsue we put down cash..
 

cvalue13

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prefer a 500 mile Cybertruck and I'm willing to pay for one, just like many others are, and Tesla knows that becsue we put down cash..
you prefer to pay $69K for one, is what Tesla knows

Give up the weaseling, what you said was wrong.
I can't exactly help if nuance is lost on you

But some points require it (nuance, and so it being lost on you)


We're talking about tomorrow's releases, not what Tesla might one day release.

And when it comes to tomorrow, Tesla *could* have built a truck that has 500miles, but it wouldn't be the truck they decided to instead release tomorrow. Just like Tesla *could* build a Model S with 600mi range, but arent - not because they're incapable, but because it's not a product they choose to sell right now.

The only other viable meaning of "could" or "couldn't' is as in, "no matter what they tried or sacrificed, they weren't capable as a matter of engineering and physics" - which would be a ridiculous position.



End of the day: gonna be lots of butt-hurt people by the end of today, because they can't wrap their minds around the nuance that Tesla hasn't "failed" to offer a 500mi truck because the "suck" as a matter of engineering and physics, but instead that Tesla has chosen to not offer a 500mi truck today because it's not a product they want to sell starting today as a matter of business and market prerogatives.

Instead, starting today, they want to sell a truck with 3[XX]mi range, at [Y] price, with [Z] capabilities and dimensions.

If you don't like Tesla's business and market prerogative, that's up to you, of course. Name-calling (Tesla, or me), isn't gonna make that boo-boo less hurty.
 

GuyV

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you prefer to pay $69K for one, is what Tesla knows



I can't exactly help if nuance is lost on you

But some points require it (nuance, and so it being lost on you)


We're talking about tomorrow's releases, not what Tesla might one day release.

And when it comes to tomorrow, Tesla *could* have built a truck that has 500miles, but it wouldn't be the truck they decided to instead release tomorrow. Just like Tesla *could* build a Model S with 600mi range, but arent - not because they're incapable, but because it's not a product they choose to sell right now.

The only other viable meaning of "could" or "couldn't' is as in, "no matter what they tried or sacrificed, they weren't capable as a matter of engineering and physics" - which would be a ridiculous position.



End of the day: gonna be lots of butt-hurt people by the end of today, because they can't wrap their minds around the nuance that Tesla hasn't "failed" to offer a 500mi truck because the "suck" as a matter of engineering and physics, but instead that Tesla has chosen to not offer a 500mi truck today because it's not a product they want to sell starting today as a matter of business and market prerogatives.

Instead, starting today, they want to sell a truck with 3[XX]mi range, at [Y] price, with [Z] capabilities and dimensions.

If you don't like Tesla's business and market prerogative, that's up to you, of course. Name-calling (Tesla, or me), isn't gonna make that boo-boo less hurty.
The sets of specs Tesla announced were its target, not just individual elements. The prices were guidelines based on costs at the time and projections, which were stated to be subject to economic conditions, in order to place Cybertruck relative to competition and provide guidance for reservations. We'll soon find out how well they have met their goals in 4 years, and whether they will keep trying to fully deliver on what they announced, and maybe an Elon time estimate on when that might happen.

Pointing out that your statements were wrong and that attempts to weasel out of them are futile is not name-calling.
 
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HaulingAss

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I don't spread false narratives, I'm only regurgitating stats from the internet over 100s of articles on dozens of studies. You seem intent on defining people that "try" as not doing hard work or discipline and claim this with your own narrative and no numbers to back it up. Considering there are billions of people who don't aspire to be wealthy and have discipline and hard work, yet still don't become millionaires as a byproduct proves my claim.

Defining "luck" based on statistics is a bit objective for any system I concur, but I picked one million dollars for a reason. In the US $2.2 million is considered the benchmark for "feeling" wealthy, a number twice what I've quoted.

You can believe anything you want, but numbers don't lie. Where are yours?
Your numbers don't prove what you think they do.

If you go purely by numbers, the most likely way to become wealthy is to be born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

I was not, and I realized at a young age that I could complain about how unfair it was, or do something about it. I was realistic in that I determined I wasn't going to change how the world works so I set about controlling spending, earning more than I spent, and saving/investing the rest. Living like a college student, at least like a college student in the 1980's, saved a lot of money over those who were buying TV's, cars, and other toys. Discipline is a huge part of getting ahead.

Saying wealth comes from luck, once we remove those who were born into great wealth, ignores the reality of using disipline and time to build wealth. It's a proven formula but it requires forgoing excessive spending when young.
 

BenH

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very disappointed. good luck to you all, and enjoy your truck. I am going to call Tesla to refund my $100.
 


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Your numbers don't prove what you think they do.
You're killing me smalls. THE numbers (not mine) say exactly what I quoted them as saying with sources (Google can do this for me and did). I know you'd like to believe your hard work was the only difference but you'd be wrong. Your argument hangs on a sample size of one (yourself) and that literally makes you a statistical anomaly. I'm assuming you are a white male, because that is the only demographic that would make your claims. You could have been born black, born in Mexico or some other 3rd world country, or had a life changing illness or injury. Rich people can deal with this, those attempting upward mobility cannot.
I would bet my Cybertruck reservation (now questionably valuable) that I've had it rougher than you, yet I persevered all the way from poverty. Hard work was a cornerstone, but to discount favorable odds is just arrogant. Please cite ANY possible science or data collection that can support your hollow argument, otherwise this horse is beaten to death.
Cheers!
 

HaulingAss

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You're killing me smalls. THE numbers (not mine) say exactly what I quoted them as saying with sources (Google can do this for me and did). I know you'd like to believe your hard work was the only difference but you'd be wrong. Your argument hangs on a sample size of one (yourself) and that literally makes you a statistical anomaly. I'm assuming you are a white male, because that is the only demographic that would make your claims. You could have been born black, born in Mexico or some other 3rd world country, or had a life changing illness or injury. Rich people can deal with this, those attempting upward mobility cannot.
I would bet my Cybertruck reservation (now questionably valuable) that I've had it rougher than you, yet I persevered all the way from poverty. Hard work was a cornerstone, but to discount favorable odds is just arrogant. Please cite ANY possible science or data collection that can support your hollow argument, otherwise this horse is beaten to death.
Cheers!
I presume you are wondering why your hard work isn't leading you on a path to great wealth?

I see five late model and rather expensive cars listed in your profile. I didn't buy a new car until I could pay cash and that cash was only around 1% of my liquid assets. Remember, I said wealth comes from work and discipline (to spend as little as possible and invest the rest). Over time those investments will begin compounding (which is more powerful than most people know).

My stance does not come from a sample of one, but from observation of the way the world works. I look at hundreds of people who went from nothing to great wealth and while most of them inherited it, of most of those who did not, the wealth did not come from luck but from discipline and hard work and understanding the power of compounding. This does not happen quickly, it takes decades. That's how compounding works best.

As an example, how much wheat would you have if you got someone to place one grain of wheat on the first square of a chess board, two on the second square, four on the third square, eight on the fourth square, and so forth until all 64 squares had been alloted the correct amount?

The total number of grains can be shown to be 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 grains of wheat (eighteen quintillion, four hundred forty-six quadrillion, seven hundred forty-four trillion, seventy-three billion, seven hundred nine million, five hundred fifty-one thousand, six hundred and fifteen, over 1.4 trillion metric tons), which is over 2,000 times the annual world production of wheat.

Now, obviously this is an extreme example of compounding because if the chess squares represented years it would be 64 years, and the doubling of rice on each square doesn't represent realistic financial returns on invested capital, but it does illustrate how non-intuitive compounding is, and how things snowball. And that is the principle I recommend young people use to build wealth so they are not stuck living month to month their entire lives.

Only two elements are required for this to work:

1) start investing early and learn on how to live on substantially less than you make.
2) investment returns must average above the rate of inflation (or you will be going nowhere)

Neither of these elements are difficult to achieve if you use a little common sense. The reason not many people achieve wealth is because they think they need more things to be happy. They keep spending instead of saving. The bigger TV, the nicer and newer car, newer shoes, the list of things people spend money on is endless. With discipline you can learn how to spend less so you can maximize the power of compounding returns.
 
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jookyone

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I presume you are wondering why your hard work isn't leading you on a path to great wealth?
Nope, not wondering at all. I could sit here and humble brag all day long about my journey from poverty to wealth in half a lifetime, but it's meaningless, because it can't be duplicated with "hard work, patience, and compound rice studies with 100% rates of return." Day traders average 6-7% returns, insider traders average 7-9% lifetime on return, politicians 12% and the average person 5-8% on 401k, real estate about 10% returns. There's dozens of studies on this. It's not a path to wealth, it is a prevention of poverty when you leave the workforce and hopefully die in less than 20 years after retirement. The elephant in the room, is that compounding only pays off at the very end. Between year 1 to year 30 of 64 years is hardly significant, you have to make it to the last 40, 50, or 60th years... then you are what... 70 to 90 years old? You lost one of only two irreplaceable resources: time and life itself.

You continue to not produce any meaningful numbers, studies, or evidence to support your narrative. "I look at 100s of people" when I just told you, math, science, and statistics sees billions of people.
Your 100s of anecdotal observations, even if those 100s amount to 999, still equates to:
one hundred twenty-eight million five hundred seventy-one thousand four hundred twenty-nine quadrillionths of a sample size of the human population ( 0.0000128571429%). I can build big (or small) numbers too, but mine are relevant, real, and statistically provable. All you have is anecdotes and preaching. Please get off the soapbox with a wealth model from the 80s and 90s, it's irrelevant. Hopefully you enjoyed whatever path you've taken to whatever destination you are currently at and I wish you good health and fortune. Cheers!
 

HaulingAss

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Nope, not wondering at all. I could sit here and humble brag all day long about my journey from poverty to wealth in half a lifetime, but it's meaningless, because it can't be duplicated with "hard work, patience, and compound rice studies with 100% rates of return." Day traders average 6-7% returns, insider traders average 7-9% lifetime on return, politicians 12% and the average person 5-8% on 401k, real estate about 10% returns. There's dozens of studies on this. It's not a path to wealth, it is a prevention of poverty when you leave the workforce and hopefully die in less than 20 years after retirement. The elephant in the room, is that compounding only pays off at the very end. Between year 1 to year 30 of 64 years is hardly significant, you have to make it to the last 40, 50, or 60th years... then you are what... 70 to 90 years old? You lost one of only two irreplaceable resources: time and life itself.

You continue to not produce any meaningful numbers, studies, or evidence to support your narrative. "I look at 100s of people" when I just told you, math, science, and statistics sees billions of people.
Your 100s of anecdotal observations, even if those 100s amount to 999, still equates to:
one hundred twenty-eight million five hundred seventy-one thousand four hundred twenty-nine quadrillionths of a sample size of the human population ( 0.0000128571429%). I can build big (or small) numbers too, but mine are relevant, real, and statistically provable. All you have is anecdotes and preaching. Please get off the soapbox with a wealth model from the 80s and 90s, it's irrelevant. Hopefully you enjoyed whatever path you've taken to whatever destination you are currently at and I wish you good health and fortune. Cheers!
OK, just keep over-spending and slacking off, and blame your lack of wealth on "bad luck". The worst way to good investment returns is to buy and sell like a day-trader. Plus, that takes a lot of time that you could use for productive work. Work hard, spend less, invest often in superior companies and let it ride. Most people think they need too much stuff, which is why they never achieve financial independence.

But you can do it your your way, just don't come complaining to me that the "system isn't fair".
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