Cyberman

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I don’t think this guy should go on a road test with a cybertruck. He doesn’t know what he’s doing.
I was doing the best I know how.
He's probably at the limit of his abilities. Only drive as fast as you can safely. He's obviously a noob, but at least he didn't slide the fuck off the road. Probably an office tech.
 

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I was doing the best I know how.
He's probably at the limit of his abilities. Only drive as fast as you can safely. He's obviously a noob, but at least he didn't slide the fuck off the road. Probably an office tech.
I ve spent some time behind the wheel in the Great Walker Evan Builds …. I was watch his mistakes which were many! but I didn’t see any shirt coming in cyber truck, great availability on approach angle, how ever I agree TLF will show you if it’s really too light ! on front end balance for proper king of the hill performance, it’s the low center of gravity that all way baffles the crowd w EVs
 

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I was doing the best I know how.
He's probably at the limit of his abilities. Only drive as fast as you can safely. He's obviously a noob, but at least he didn't slide the fuck off the road. Probably an office tech.
Total novelist off Roader or noob haha 😂
I don’t think this guy should go on a road test with a cybertruck. He doesn’t know what he’s doing.
Do you all REALLY think that Tesla would let just anybody take their precious CT RC to an off-road place like this, to test the CT, under conditions like this? Especially someone that is a novice or a noob??? How do you think the conversation went:

Boss;"We need a group to take the CT out to Hollister and do some off road testing of the Phalangical traction software module and run some hills. Who here has no idea what they're doing?"

EE Engineer; "Not only do I not know what I'm doing, the closest I've ever been to off-roading is once I parked my car on the front lawn to wash it."

Mailroom guy: "Ahhh, I'm an avid rock crawler and used to race pick-ups in the Baja 1000"

Boss; "Sorry mailroom guy, you know too much. EE Engineer, find half a dozen people as ignorant as you are and take an RC out to Hollister for the day. Do some off-road testing, and report back. While you're at it, take the RCs with summer street tires, that's better. You won't know the difference because you have no idea what you're doing."

EE Engineer; "Ok. Ummmm, what difference do the tires make?"

Or do you think there was a script, with an experienced driver, testing specific portions of the code to see how the CT reacted and what, if anything needs to be changed? That maybe they were testing boundaries and limits and trying to intentionally create the worst possible conditions to see how the CT would react? I mean, we never use a new pilot to test new aero or software mods...

Just sayin'...
 

HaulingAss

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Or do you think there was a script, with an experienced driver, testing specific portions of the code to see how the CT reacted and what, if anything needs to be changed? That maybe they were testing boundaries and limits and trying to intentionally create the worst possible conditions to see how the CT would react? I mean, we never use a new pilot to test new aero or software mods...
This. I can't tell how how experienced the driver was, but I think he was a software engineer collecting data for the fine-tuning of traction control in steep climbs. And he paused and went slow so the resulting data was simple to understand and easy to overlay on the video. They can then look at each wheel in isolation and see where the traction control was not handing the torque off to the optimal wheel.

Interestingly, about half-way up, at the point both rear wheels spun and the rear end migrated towards the driver's left, that is the same behavior caused by a mechanical locking rear differential. However, my guess is that it was a simulated locking rear differential, via software and two rear motors. That behavior would have been difficult to create with an open differential and I really doubt it has a mechanical locker. It needs software tuning to become better than a mechanical locker, specifically, more torque should have been transferred to the front wheels automatically and one rear wheel should have been chosen to limit torque to a value just below a spinning wheel to maintain sideways control of the rear end.

Software tuning of multi motor EV's becames complicated pretty fast, if the goal is to maximize climbing performance and control beyond that achievable with 4x4 ICE systems.
 


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Is it just me or does it look like they didn’t air down those tires? They looked pretty stiff and tall. - very different outcome climbing with aired down tires. - maybe a limitation with electric given weight and torque?

Those tires are aired down. Consequences of a very high load rating and 20” wheels
 

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People need to understand that every throttle input or steering input is 100% intentional. These guys aren’t out there for fun. They’re testing. Trying to find where it’s failing so they can make it better. If he wanted to, he could have just locked the diff(s) (theoretically, of course if it has them) and most likely crawled right up.
Dude!

You've got my heart racing if this thing has diff locks! Even just as an option! :love:

I can't wait to see the finished result.

From the video it looks like it would help to let down the airbag pressure a bit for better wheel suspension articulation and traction, or even better yet, use a air suspension cross link valve, or an electronic version of it, to equalise the airspring pressure on either side. I think with that it would just walk up there like nothing even with open diffs.
 

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I can't wait to see the finished result.

From the video it looks like it would help to let down the airbag pressure a bit for better wheel suspension articulation and traction, or even better yet, use a air suspension cross link valve, or an electronic version of it, to equalise the airspring pressure on either side. I think with that it would just walk up there like nothing even with open diffs.
A Tesla vehicle will never be "finished", just as their humanoid robot will constantly evolve to be stronger, lighter, smarter, quicker and cheaper, through a process of iterative improvements.

I think the stair steps are steeper than you think, if you think two open diffs and a more compliant suspension would allow it walk right up there like nothing. It looked particularly dusty and the required side-to-side articulation is always going to turn open differential into a zero-wheel drive situation pretty quickly without active brake application on the wheels with the least traction. Softening up the suspension would only mildly reduce that effect.

Without knowing how many motors that particular Cybertruck has, and the state of development of the traction control software, it's pretty hard to draw many significant conclusions from the video.
 

JBee

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A Tesla vehicle will never be "finished", just as their humanoid robot will constantly evolve to be stronger, lighter, smarter, quicker and cheaper, through a process of iterative improvements.

I think the stair steps are steeper than you think, if you think two open diffs and a more compliant suspension would allow it walk right up there like nothing. It looked particularly dusty and the required side-to-side articulation is always going to turn open differential into a zero-wheel drive situation pretty quickly without active brake application on the wheels with the least traction. Softening up the suspension would only mildly reduce that effect.

Without knowing how many motors that particular Cybertruck has, and the state of development of the traction control software, it's pretty hard to draw many significant conclusions from the video.
He said they were testing and driving like that intentionally.

I don't expect every CT to come with a free Tesla engineer to sit in the back while I go off-roading...😆

So although I agree they can make changes with OTA, at some point it must be "finished" enough for me to drive it though?

Anyways, you can seebin the video that the airsprings were set to high, and accordingly it looked stiff as the body moved fairly closely with the wheel position. Wheel articulation is about letting the suspension move without pitching the body, which in turn means the equal amount of force is applied to opposing wheels, which is the best way to improve traction on both wheels.

With an open diff, the wheel that doesn't slip has the most traction, so stopping the other wheel from slipping makes the one with traction turn.

So ground contact with equal pressure on each wheel is key to get power down to increase momentum.

This is why most rock crawlers use live axles, because the axle does some of this transfer by itself. Independent suspension needs to do this artificially by modulating the spring, in this case lowering the airspring pressure.

There's another item here that could reduce articulation, and that is the anti sway bar. If that is configured for on-road performance and payload, and is stiff to do so, then this will also limit articulation.

Luckily you can get a aftermarket kit to disable them for offroad, or even better just get a Kinetic kit and replace them. That way you never need to switch them as it works autonomously.
 

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It's the tires. Put some good AT tires and re-run this section of the trail ;)
 


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Those tires are aired down. Consequences of a very high load rating and 20” wheels
The tires are aired down based on what?

Based on my observation at the last second of the video when the left rear tire leaves the raised sharp egde of the pavement (at an angle, no less), there is so little deformation (as evidenced by the tire not dropping down to the lower lovel of the dirt until it rolls all the way off), I would say the pressure is up around 46 psi. or higher And, yes, I know they have a relatively high load rating.

One unknown is whether they had test weight in the bed and frunk areas. But if they did, it would imply even higher pressures, based on my observations above.

It looks to me like they purposefully kept the air pressures high to provide more data when the tires couldn't find traction.
 

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He said they were testing and driving like that intentionally.
Good on ya, mate! That's what I said.

I don't expect every CT to come with a free Tesla engineer to sit in the back while I go off-roading...😆

So although I agree they can make changes with OTA, at some point it must be "finished" enough for me to drive it though?
It will be finished enough for you to drive it whenever you think it's good enough for you. Based on my observation, I'll take it right now. On my early production Model 3, I loved to watch the over-the-air improvements in real time. I had the oportunity to see the early Model 3 RWD Long Range improve, and then we got one of the first Performance AWD versions and I watched that improve, most notably, when they delivered Track Mode with the individual sliders for 0-100% front to rear power bias and 0-100% electronic traction and stability control (it can be dialed up or down as desired). As I recall, at the same time they released Track Mode, they also improved the handling dynamics by adjusting the way the default (non-Track Mode) traction control worked going into and out of corners.

If I get to watch the Cybertruck hill climbing ability improve while I own it, that's just a bonus. If you want to wait until it's up to your presumably high standards, that's up to you.

Anyways, you can seebin the video that the airsprings were set to high, and accordingly it looked stiff as the body moved fairly closely with the wheel position. Wheel articulation is about letting the suspension move without pitching the body, which in turn means the equal amount of force is applied to opposing wheels, which is the best way to improve traction on both wheels.
The suspension did look overly firm and high. Probably for reasons of getting more cut and dried data for tuning the traction system.

With an open diff, the wheel that doesn't slip has the most traction, so stopping the other wheel from slipping makes the one with traction turn.

So ground contact with equal pressure on each wheel is key to get power down to increase momentum.
Yeah, that's obvious. And the Cybertruck in the video was not using it's entire suspension travel to the best effect due to being set too stiffly. But, as indicated above, I think that wqas likely deliberate to get better data for tuning the power transfer of the traction control.

This is why most rock crawlers use live axles, because the axle does some of this transfer by itself. Independent suspension needs to do this artificially by modulating the spring, in this case lowering the airspring pressure.

There's another item here that could reduce articulation, and that is the anti sway bar. If that is configured for on-road performance and payload, and is stiff to do so, then this will also limit articulation.

Luckily you can get a aftermarket kit to disable them for offroad, or even better just get a Kinetic kit and replace them. That way you never need to switch them as it works autonomously.
Have we seen anti-sway bars on the Cybertruck? I don't think I have. Were there any visible in the crash video? The one talen from under the truck? I don't recall seeing any. I'm hoping Tesla has figured out a way to get good on-road cornering without them, perhaps by leveraging the adjustable suspension independently. But that may be too tall of an order in terms of other design considerations (like minimizing the energy consumption and service intervals of the adjustable suspension).
 

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Interestingly, about half-way up, at the point both rear wheels spun and the rear end migrated towards the driver's left, that is the same behavior caused by a mechanical locking rear differential. However, my guess is that it was a simulated locking rear differential, via software and two rear motors. That behavior would have been difficult to create with an open differential and I really doubt it has a mechanical locker.
A little birdie just said you might be surprised...
 
 




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