No Resale Agreement?

Crissa

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Thanks Crissa, I appreciate the feedback but if I condense my thoughts about Orge’s shitposting much more it would be even less civil than I am currently managing.

Believe it or not, I’m actually interested in the opinions of people I disagree with.
You and I regularly disagree but manage to keep it civil most of the time.

I am working on being less reactive to peoples disingenuous use of logical fallacy in argument.

Somedays better than others.
Condense. Make smaller and more clear.

That's the opposite of expand and expound.

-Crissa
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Deleted member 3316

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Condense. Make smaller and more clear.

That's the opposite of expand and expound.

-Crissa
I understand the concept of condensing an idea. In the case of dealing with disingenuous arguments, it's often counterproductive.

Do you have anything to add to the topic of a resale restriction?
 

Arctic_White

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You were talking about straw men earlier. This is a straw man.

I think everyone recognizes scalping will happen. Most of us just don’t think it will have a significant impact on delivery timing. Also, the things people are suggesting to “Fix” it are unlikely to do anything to fix it.

You’ve done little to address or even quantify either of those concerns.

Honestly, I think most of us are just flat out done with this topic. You aren’t convincing anyone, and clearly not willing to be convinced.
Exactly.

Scalping may be a concern to reservation holders, but Tesla will price the CT right with built-in fat profit margins for them (40%). There is no reason for Tesla to get involved with various strategies to limit scalpers. This is not Tesla's mission or its goal. Why add more complications?

Tesla is and should be focused on making as many CTs as possible.

I really couldn't care less about scalpers as they do not make up the majority. With that said, I wouldn't pay more than the list price for the CT either.
 

Arctic_White

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It’s not the scalpers that concern me, it’s the simplistic measures Tesla will implement to mitigate the losses attributable to the complex problem.
But why should it be a Tesla problem?

What's Tesla's goal? To accelerate the transition to sustainable energy or to maximize profits?
 

Ogre

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What's Tesla's goal? To accelerate the transition to sustainable energy or to maximize profits?
Yes.

These have thus far proven to be compatible goals. It’s unlikely to change.

People who think Tesla is going to engage in huge gouging aren’t thinking long or even middle term.
 


Arctic_White

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Yes.

These have thus far proven to be compatible goals. It’s unlikely to change.

People who think Tesla is going to engage in huge gouging aren’t thinking long or even middle term.
Exactly.

If the scalpers are selling for a higher price consistently, do you know what Tesla will do? They'll do what they did with Model Y in 2022, which was to raise prices so that supply = demand.

It's not that difficult...

And count me as someone who is the least bit concerned about scalping.
 

Jhodgesatmb

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There is a high probability that many CT buyers in the first 18 months will be profiteers buying to flip the vehicle. Many Rivian buyers continuing to do that. It is also common with other high popularity vehicles. (In brands like Ford and GM that use the franchise stealership model, the local stealership massively marks them up.) Ford tried a no-resale for 12 months contract on the Lightning. Not sure how much good it did. So here is a modest proposal:

Tesla should include a 12 month buy-back right on the CT. Simple agreement. Tesla has, at its option, the right to buy-back the truck if you decide to sell it, for full purchase price, anytime during the first 12 months. If Tesla turns down the right to buy then sell as you see fit.

It will discourage profiteering from the speculators. You want the truck, buy it /drive it /enjoy it. Situation changes? Sell it for a full refund to Tesla if they want it or on the secondary market if they do not. Your early reservation has no value other than that you get to buy the truck earlier.

Okay, blast away. :)
I have every intention of driving my CT until I keel over, but I like your idea.
 

Ogre

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If the scalpers are selling for a higher price consistently, do you know what Tesla will do? They'll do what they did with Model Y in 2022, which was to raise prices so that supply = demand.
When the purchase decision is determined largely by an action people made 3+ years prior, it puts some really weird twists to normal supply and demand.

I think Tesla will put a small effort into eliminating scalpers, but not much. There was scalping during last year‘s Model Y demand crush and it’s unlikely they will do a whole lot more. You see reservations trading hands a fair bit already. Cybertruck reservations will be premium for a while. But the number of people willing to drop thousands of dollars on a reservation is likely fairly small.
 

Jhodgesatmb

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Flippers will be a drop in the bucket. Not worth this apparent desire to find something to worry about.
It isn't about the numbers; it is about the attitude. I would like to see greed squashed in all its forms and I hate people that cut in line too. Same attitude: that what they want trumps everything else.
 

Jhodgesatmb

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You were talking about straw men earlier. This is a straw man.

I think everyone recognizes scalping will happen. Most of us just don’t think it will have a significant impact on delivery timing. Also, the things people are suggesting to “Fix” it are unlikely to do anything to fix it.

You’ve done little to address or even quantify either of those concerns.

Honestly, I think most of us are just flat out done with this topic. You aren’t convincing anyone, and clearly not willing to be convinced.
I am ok dropping the topic but not because I disagree with the notion of disincentivizing (is that even a word?) scalpers but because I doubt Tesla will do anything about it. Tesla has demonstrated that it is all about rewarding so-called 'influencers' so they will not punish them and that is that.
 


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But why should it be a Tesla problem?

What's Tesla's goal? To accelerate the transition to sustainable energy or to maximize profits?
There needs to be a balance. Tesla is not going to maximise profits for profits sake but it would be negligent and would dishonour the reservation system to price it so low as to ensure parasitic profiteering.

Do you think Tesla will just allow a couple thousand dollars per vehicle (on average) of profit to be siphoned off or just start at a price that is closer to market value?

The demand and the reservation list creates a market situation we haven’t seen before. Going by past market strategy Tesla will start/price as high their production volume can supply, until the wait list gets to weeks/months rather than years…
 
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Yes.

These have thus far proven to be compatible goals. It’s unlikely to change.

People who think Tesla is going to engage in huge gouging aren’t thinking long or even middle term.
Depends on your view of what gouging is.

Industry average profit margin is between 3% & 10%, Tesla, depending on how you calculate it, is 20%-30%. (-ve 40% for Fords EV business)

Market value is market value, it’s not insulin they’re selling, it’s a vehicle.

I don’t want them to sell Cybertruck above reveal prices, but I’m pretty sure they will. A different market strategy is required to sell at reveal prices.
 

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scalpers but because I doubt Tesla will do anything about it
Tesla’s “embarrassing margins” (as Elon puts it), indicate what Tesla is doing about it. How this will translate to CyberTruck is infinitely debatable,with multiple sliding scales of probability.

Maybe Cybertruck isn’t as awesome as we all think it will be. Maybe every single person that reserved would prefer a Cybertruck in their driveway instead of an extra $20-$40k in their wallet.

I’m pretty sure a cybertruck sold at $50k MSRP will easily sell for $70-80k in the open market for quite a few years.
 
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But the number of people willing to drop thousands of dollars on a reservation is likely fairly small.
Have you got a thesis behind that assumption?
That would provide valuable insight for the readership here. You state that Cybertruck reservations are swapping hands already. Where is this being transacted?
How are you quantifying fairly small?
 
 




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