HaulingAss

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door are like fenders, vanity add on and keep out the weather and hold the window. Only thing protects you during a crash is the crossbeam. The whole point of sledge hammer to a normal door is to prove that very point. Indeed the trajectory of human intellect is falling off a cliff.
Doors contribute in a major way to protecting the occupants because they spread side-impact forces out more evenly to the frame of the passenger compartment. Crossbeams make the door stronger but the door itself would transfer considerable crash energy more evenly to the rest of the structure, even if they didn't have a crossbeam.

Tesla Cybertruck PSA: Cybertruck body shell exoskeleton is not one contiguous piece of bent steel 1669436956089


Doors are not vanity items.
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Jhodgesatmb

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Semi-truck bumpers are not anywhere near 3/8" thick steel, that would be considered plate steel. More typically 10 gauge carbon sheet steel, slightly thicker than the Cybertruck's nearly 3mm thick exoskeleton. However, the cold-rolling will make the stainless steel of the Cybertruck exoskeleton stronger than the carbon steel semi-truck bumper.

Also, the high-strength steel crossbeams in most vehicle doors do not need to be impacted directly to be of great benefit. The crossbeam helps prevent the door from caving in when impacted, even if the main impact is above or below the crossbeam. Keep in mind that it's somewhat non-sensical to talk about a side impact that missed the door's crossbeam because the front of other vehicles are never shaped like a sharp wedge, at least not the structural parts of the front of the car. Will Cybertruck have a crossbeam inside its doors? It's probably not needed but we don't know yet. It could have a cross member in there if testing shows it to be a benefit.
And I owned an older Landcruiser and the bumper was about 3mm (~1/8”). I remember a guy cutting a corner and hitting my bumper while I was stopped at a driveway. It crumpled his fender like tissue paper and chipped my paint :)
 

Crissa

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And I owned an older Landcruiser and the bumper was about 3mm (~1/8”). I remember a guy cutting a corner and hitting my bumper while I was stopped at a driveway. It crumpled his fender like tissue paper and chipped my paint :)
Yeah, a guy cut me off when I had our old '73 Nova. The fender curcled back just a tiny bit and then sliced open his Toyota truck like tinfoil. Blew both his tires, too, I had to get towed, but it was bent back into place with a hammer and a wrecking bar - and then it was fine.

-Crissa
 

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door are like fenders, vanity add on and keep out the weather and hold the window. Only thing protects you during a crash is the crossbeam. The whole point of sledge hammer to a normal door is to prove that very point. Indeed the trajectory of human intellect is falling off a cliff.
The point of the sledge hammer demonstration is to show the stainless steel will not dent as easily ...
 

JBee

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I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of "critical acclaim".

While it's true that more knowledgable posters were critical of your perspective, that definitely doesn't mean what you think it does. Being critical of something is the opposite of "critical acclaim".
I don't think you understand what sarcasm is. Don't they have that in the USA anymore? ;)

I got boiled for bringing up what Ogre and the OP are suggesting. Now they argue for it.

I'm not sure why you are responding twice to he same post, slow day at the office?

It would be an exoskeleton with or without the skin on it but skinning a trussed structure is a well-known method of making the truss even stronger.
So do you know what exoskeleton means?

exoskeleton .-

"a rigid external covering for the body in some invertebrate animals, especially arthropods."

So if it doesn't have a "covering" it doesn't have a exoskeleton right?

The only part with a "cover" are the fenders, the cabin "truss" has a hollow profile space frame, it does not have a skin at all.

Or do you think a stick man has a exoskeleton too?

Without definition conversation is meaningless.
 
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Jhodgesatmb

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It is obvious the body will be made of many pieces welded together. However I also have the question of why the doors need to be so heavy as they don’t really have really good interface with the body so structural strength added would be relatively minimum. In theory a good cross beam reenforcing the laches/hinges with a thin piece of same metal door skin would do but obviously there has to be reasons Tesla did it besides why not make the doors to be Level IIIA protection.
If it was obvious we wouldn’t be talking about it would we? Sadly, all we have is 2 prototypes and what Elon said. Everything (EVERYTHING) else is someone’s conjecture. That is fine as long as it is conveyed as speculation rather than fact. Some of the conjecture makes sense but that doesn’t make it either correct or fact.
 

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It is obvious the body will be made of many pieces welded together. However I also have the question of why the doors need to be so heavy as they don’t really have really good interface with the body so structural strength added would be relatively minimum. In theory a good cross beam reenforcing the laches/hinges with a thin piece of same metal door skin would do but obviously there has to be reasons Tesla did it besides why not make the doors to be Level IIIA protection.
On impact the door skins are pushed into and interface with the cabin door frames and transfer loads to the rollcage, even without the door hinges or lock. So their structural outside skin does help, but only in a collision where the vehicle is deformed. But you are right that in their usual state being hung on the frame, they only structurally serve to stop environmental ingress and passenger and load egress, and of course NVH and to hold you bottles.

I believe the folded outside door skin provides most of the structure of the door without any internal steel ribbing at all, and except for possibly a extra side impact protection tube, it's all just moulded plastic inside. Just the door sheet itself in 3mm will be around 20kg (44lbs), so not to bad for that size door, they are big.
 

JBee

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If it was obvious we wouldn’t be talking about it would we? Sadly, all we have is 2 prototypes and what Elon said. Everything (EVERYTHING) else is someone’s conjecture. That is fine as long as it is conveyed as speculation rather than fact. Some of the conjecture makes sense but that doesn’t make it either correct or fact.
Not "everything", that's unreasonable and silly, I'm sure you can see that.

Air, water, earth and fire are still the elements you know. ;);)
 

HaulingAss

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I don't think you understand what sarcasm is. Don't they have that in the USA anymore? ;)

I got boiled for bringing up what Ogre and the OP are suggesting. Now they argue for it.

I'm not sure why you are responding twice tot he same post, slow day at the office?



So do you know what exoskeleton means?

exoskeleton .-

"a rigid external covering for the body in some invertebrate animals, especially arthropods."

So if it doesn't have a "covering" it doesn't have a exoskeleton right?

The only part with a "cover" are the fenders, the cabin "truss" has a hollow profile space frame, it does not have a skin at all.

Or do you think a stick man has a exoskeleton too?

Without definition conversation is meaningless.
The definition of "exoskeleton" hasn't changed but it looks like you want to change it. No, an "exoskeleton" does not need to be skinned (and it never has). You simply don't understand the concept. No, a stick figure doesn't have an exosketon because there is nothing inside. Here are some examples to help you understand:

Mid-engine exoskeleton kit car frame (pinterest.com) (click for pics)

View attachment 14880
The U.S.-Built Ariel Atom 4 Is an Insane Road-Legal Open-Wheeler That Costs $75K - autoevolution


The Cybertruck will have an exoskelton that is made up largely of the skin but any structural elements attached to that skin (that also surround the non-structural components like seats and cabin area) will also be part of the exoskeleton (including any inner panels attached to the outer skin).

I've explained all this before but a regular unibody car could also be considered to have an exoskeleton but the Cybertruck takes unibody cars a giant leap forward by having bodywork that carries a much higher percentage of the total load (because it's that's much stronger and more rigid than the typical body panels used on unibody vehicles).
 

JBee

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The definition of "exoskeleton" hasn't changed but it looks like you want to change it. No, an "exoskeleton" does not need to be skinned (and it never has). You simply don't understand the concept. No, a stick figure doesn't have an exosketon because there is nothing inside. Here are some examples to help you understand:

Mid-engine exoskeleton kit car frame (pinterest.com) (click for pics)


The Cybertruck will have an exoskelton that is made up largely of the skin but any structural elements attached to that skin (that also surround the non-structural components like seats and cabin area) will also be part of the exoskeleton (including any inner panels attached to the outer skin).

I've explained all this before but a regular unibody car could also be considered to have an exoskeleton but the Cybertruck takes unibody cars a giant leap forward by having bodywork that carries a much higher percentage of the total load (because it's that's much stronger and more rigid than the typical body panels used on unibody vehicles).
Dude you can't just say stuff as if it was so without any evidence, let alone provide evidence directly contrary to your own statements to make your point. Make up your mind which way you want it first.

So is an exoskeleton by definition "covered" or not? Explain.

BTW Those car images you showed (ariel etc) are just simple tubular 3D space frames, which is the same structure as the CT cabin (as other cars have too like the M3/MY), but has nothing to do with exoskeleton, regardless of what someone, or EM wants to call it.

Tesla Cybertruck PSA: Cybertruck body shell exoskeleton is not one contiguous piece of bent steel 1669516511853
 


Crissa

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An egg is an exoskeleton. But so is a truss. And a geodesic dome made of tubular steel. And a crab.

I don't know why you think that only the egg can be an exoskeleton. Even a crab and that bug have reinforced rib shapes in their carapace, where their gills fit and limbs attach.

I don't understand why you think a truss isn't an exoskeleton.

-Crissa
 

JBee

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No a truss is not an exoskeleton, it's a truss, and a space frame a space frame (which is a 3D trusss btw), and the CT cabin shape is the same as most other cars as it forms a truss section on each side, but you don't see anyone calling a F150 cab a exoskeleton do you?

But my statement goes beyond that, in that a tubular frame, which is not covered is most definitely not a exoskeleton by the common definition thereof, originating from biological terminology. Likewise the CT doesn't differ itself enough from other vehicles in its roll cage design, and given the only "skin" or steel cover it has that could be structural or considered exoskeleton is the front and rear fenders, that have absolutely no function in transferring any load to the vehicle wheels, where all loads must terminate. Only in a collision will the fenders play a roll, and even there their role is limited to retarding acceleration forces.

I generally have a problem with name calling things something that they aren't. If you really want to call the fenders exoskeleton be my guest, although they don't form a complete one either, but calling the rest of the structure that, is like calling a wing a bird or a paw a cat.

Next we'll be calling tyres spinning worms or calamari slices.
 
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Sadly (very sadly) I do not see anything on the discharge list that is very heavy :-( I am hoping that I just don't know how to use the tool.
Not seeing a BOL either yet. Regardless of our two ships, I should see a BOL soon. I check several times a day.

Any other Italy to Houston boats you’ve found?
 

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Not seeing a BOL either yet. Regardless of our two ships, I should see a BOL soon. I check several times a day.

Any other Italy to Houston boats you’ve found?
I looked for a general freight ship after you mentioned the Don Carlos but the search tool is very limited.
 

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Since they are tooling now, whatever way they are going to make the exoskeleton it is already decided/solved and our guesses and logic are just that.
The Exoskeleton will need to be Stainless Steel Origami to qualify as such. Our faith that they can accomplish that doesn't make it so. Tesla is know to stretch with their descriptions and FSD is another good example. FSD is NOT ready for primetime and should continue in BETA test until more "edge cases" are resolved. Calling it Advanced Auto Pilot and ongoing Beta Testing by high safety score drivers would be a better way of addressing the Robo Taxi goals.
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