Rear Wheel Steering

[bigrin]

I think we all should get what we saw and what we put our reservation in for, no downsizing and no extra money for options that we don’t need. Dual motor with FSD and nothing more for me, please. $49.9k plus $7k.

DITTO!

Sponsored

 

[JBee]

I was very pleased that one of my most important wishes was fulfilled by Elon and the Tesla engineers.

What I have not read now in the 13 pages (or have overlooked)

Such a steerable rear axle has besides the mentioned advantages one more:

It is cheaper!

Have you ever seen a modern rear axle? So not the carriage rigid axles from the Middle Ages but the multi-link axles with very precisely specified links, elastic bearings toe-camber-caster changes depending on position and load vector.
And then a McPherson front axle on the same vehicle that is almost primitive in comparison.
Why is that?
Simply because the rear axle must steer for good handling, and why can the front axle be so primitive?

Because it is actively steered.

What does this mean for the CT?
The axle is more expensive than the carriage rigid axle of the current trucks, but the axle can be built primitive and cheaper if it can be actively steered, yes it can be built like a front axle, it could even be built from the same components like the front axle, the individual wheel suspensions could be identical, i.e. a pair of wishbones, an air suspension strut and that 4 times on each vehicle.

Gruezi Auric.

Sorry my friend but I think I mentioned combining the front and rear suspension and steering into the same production line would save costs, at least 2-3 times in this thread

 

[Diehard]

I think the headline was that when they can prove out production of the 4680 in a pilot line they will invest heavily... so it wasn't quite "we're doing it" it was "we'll do it, when it works".

Believe me, I want it to work, but to my eyes there isn't proof of that yet. I don't know enough about battery production to really have an informed opinion about the likelihood it just seems like there isn't any confirmed reports of production issues being sorted. At least that I've seen.

If CT does only 4680 and depends on Panasonic for it, we will have a lot of “a month or so“ s ahead of us. Panasonic pilot line time line is by March. A full blown factory would be some time after that. If Tesla has it’s own production line in Texas independently feeding both Y and CT, we may see some CT production when that line is operational and faster production when Panasonic kicks in couple of years down the road.

 

[Gordon E Peterson II]

Tesla is mostly linux based so it should run steam etc at some point for gaming. Android runs a linux kernal so not to different either. Most of it is based on open source, but I expect all FSD and safety features etc to run at least in dedicated containers, or even separate hardware.

But in saying that a $3-400 tablet will add all that functionality too except FSD/AAA gaming. Its nice to have it built in though on a 17".

It could do screencast over wifi, but bluetooth is not fast enough for screen casting. You can already screencast with Android auto btw.

It would be cool to be able to access sites like radio.garden and/or freeintertv.com while rolling with FSD, and/or at charging stations. ;-)))

 

[Gordon E Peterson II]

I would love to see the final design as well. I’m not sure what or why Elon is holding off on this information??? Folks wanna know?

I'm glad that it's not frozen yet. If someone comes up with an intriguing idea, and if it can be added, I'll just as soon have more neat things than I was expecting already. ;-)

 

[Gordon E Peterson II]

If CT does only 4680 and depends on Panasonic for it, we will have a lot of “a month or so“ s ahead of us. Panasonic pilot line time line is by March. A full blown factory would be some time after that. If Tesla has it’s own production line in Texas independently feeding both Y and CT, we may see some CT production when that line is operational and faster production when Panasonic kicks in couple of years down the road.

I would hope that most of y'all here are following the Joe Tegtmeyer drone videos from the construction of the new Tesla headquarters gigafactory in Austin, but if not... here's the video shot on July 2nd (he's taking some time off for the holiday, so the next one won't be until tomorrow)...
... there's a MAJOR part of the plant there that will be devoted to building the batteries (and presumably the 4680) and another (foundation only, so far) plant to the east which will be used for processing the cathode materials... but this is all Tesla stuff, and I don't think Panasonic will have anything at all to do with it. ;-)
(In the picture above... note the two big overhead red crane beams... those are the second of the overhead cranes in the stamping machine area....)
The plant so far has two of the 6,000 ton Gigapresses installed (and at least one of those is already producing castings) and they're advancing rapidly on the section where the 8,000 ton Gigapresses (for the rear section of the Cybertruck will be cast) will be installed. The stamping/paint parts of the plant (for producing the Model Y) are already there and advancing rapidly too.
I expect the Model Y will be in production there in Austin within 3-5 months and the Cybertruck probably in 1Q next year... possibly with a few coming off the line before the end of this year.

 

[tmeyer3]

Rear steering makes a lot of sense for a vehicle with regular software updates. It hasn't really been done until now because it's surprisingly hard to control (getting it right for everyone, etc. ). I foresee some complaints no matter how well done it is lol...

As far as mechanical engineering goes, it's really not hard since this technology has been figured out for a long time. But CONTROLLING it is where it'll bite haha.

For example:
sure, tighter turns are great! But the rear tires angling outwards adds new collision possibilities. Since the turning radius can now start at the rear of the vehicle, rather than only pivoting around the rear axle, we're going to see a lot of folks "side driving" into things haha. It'll be important to understand that when you aim to turn left, your rear tires will be aiming RIGHT.
Good control and software can certainly fix this (and other weird cases) and make it amazing! It'll be interesting to see how Tesla implements all this.
I'm stoked!
Cheers!

 

[Gordon E Peterson II]

Rear steering makes a lot of sense for a vehicle with regular software updates. It hasn't really been done until now because it's surprisingly hard to control (getting it right for everyone, etc. ). I foresee some complaints no matter how well done it is lol...

As far as mechanical engineering goes, it's really not hard since this technology has been figured out for a long time. But CONTROLLING it is where it'll bite haha.

For example:
sure, tighter turns are great! But the rear tires angling outwards adds new collision possibilities. Since the turning radius can now start at the rear of the vehicle, rather than only pivoting around the rear axle, we're going to see a lot of folks "side driving" into things haha. It'll be important to understand that when you aim to turn left, your rear tires will be aiming RIGHT.
Good control and software can certainly fix this (and other weird cases) and make it amazing! It'll be interesting to see how Tesla implements all this.
I'm stoked!
Cheers!

well, presumably the TeslaVision will prevent (e.g.) the CT back end grazing a car in the lane to your right when you're making a left turn...!

 

[Dids]

Great point. I was freaking out about 4680 a bit. This gives me a bit of hope. Can you share the source? The last I heard the only thing Panasonic committed to was building the prototype production line and multi billion dollar investment was pending success of prototype line and also interest from Non-Tesla companies to purchase the battery.

Yes panasonic said it was setting up a prototype production line. Which means that the production tech is in place. In other words they know how to produce 4680 tabless batteries. Also Tesla has filed the plans for battery production at giga Berlin which detail how and where the dry coating anodes and cathodes are going to be produced. All this implies that Tesla knows how to do this and is ready to build production. No one builds production lines unless the pilot is running. This must mean that Fremont pilot is spitting em out.

 

[Gordon E Peterson II]

Yes panasonic said it was setting up a prototype production line. Which means that the production tech is in place. In other words they know how to produce 4680 tabless batteries. Also Tesla has filed the plans for battery production at giga Berlin which detail how and where the dry coating anodes and cathodes are going to be produced. All this implies that Tesla knows how to do this and is ready to build production. No one builds production lines unless the pilot is running. This must mean that Fremont pilot is spitting em out.

well, if you look at the Tiegtmeyer video, you'll see that the (huge) section of the factory they're building in Austin is NOT for the older, soon-to-be-obsolete smaller battery packs. ;-) It's a pretty safe bet that this GIgafactory will ONLY be producing the 4680 batteries.
And presumably the same will be true for Berlin.

 

[JBee]

EM already confirmed in a tweet that Austin MY is getting 4680, meaning that the CT will to. Its also unlikely they will do a 18650 structural pack assembly line (if thats possible at all). Ct will be 4680.

 

[Cyberman]

3% smaller, so $50,000x.97=$48,500. I'll take it.

 

[MEDICALJMP]

I love the 4WS. It was part of my wish list. But people are going nuts thinking this is so “out there”. It’s been done before. Lots of times. At least 62 vehicles have had 4WS. Hell, even Rolls Royce had a 4WS car. I am praying it is drive by wire.

 

[Dawgfan]

I live in Battle Ground, so we can both meet up at the trailhead and thrash that hike. I can’t wait to show off in front of the good old boys from Amboy and yacolt. I’m for sure gonna hit the hard ones up by sunset falls

I thrash my Wrangler on that trail and am so looking forward to doing it in the Cybertruck. Sounds like we need to plan a Cybertruck meet up at Silver Star.

 

[jerhenderson]

Me too.

I've driven a uhaul a couple of times, a Tacoma a bunch of times. I don't think they qualify...

Got to start somewhere though.

it's a big car that needs more area to turn - hence the benefit of rear steering.

Sponsored