Round or square? Buttons or stalks?

[CyberGus]

I've refused to upgrade past iPhone8 because I like the home button, and hate the stupid notch.

Certainly I will become accustomed to non-round steering wheels, and being stalkless, and lacking a central display. But I reserve the right to be annoyed by it until the day I die.

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[ÆCIII]

I certainly hope they don’t. Here is why. Tesla limits the options to improve efficiency and reduce cost of manufacturing the vehicle. When you start adding options, especially ones that add parts to the build, you increase the price for everyone. What you’re suggesting is what makes cars so expensive for the legacy OEMs.

Except for these particular items of stalks, buttons, and wheels, as Tesla is already manufacturing each of these options in large quantities anyway, albeit for slightly different models. But their manufacturing systems for each are already in place and would not require extremely expensive modifications to include them for additional models.

The relative added expense and extra tooling now needed to get the data, would be invaluable in helping them decide which options to focus on going forward. Tesla knows the value of going all in to get valuable data, in order to assure the optimal path forward long term, as they've been doing it a lot already. Offering the options isolated in different models as they do now is not very useful for comparison data, because such data from a single model can't be compared.

Some in here think it should already be decided and stalk less buttons with yokes should be the way forward. Fact is no one in here including myself really knows what is optimal for the important factors and cost isn't the only consideration.

These aren't huge options to be offering both of anyway, compared to like offering the different brakes and front rotors as they make for the performance Model 3/Y, or even offering a sixth seat option for the Cybertruck or not, and many people in here certainly hope someday they would be offering that.

Tesla needs to find out the actual safety and ergonomic viability of these options for long term scale. I think making the wrong decision now because a few in Tesla 'like' it, or a few early adopters are hyping something as a fad would be foolish - which is why I'm saying that collecting data on such options would be important. Over time, the trend will reveal itself anyway and if Tesla doesn't proactively get the data and determine what the (actual) best choice is sooner, their competition will instead.

It could be that both choices are about equal mostly or in some ways too. But look what's happened to the early short history of the yoke steering wheel so far. Hasn't Tesla started offering round wheels as an option for models which were once only with a yoke? What was the basis of that decision? Oh, I bet it was 'data'. Hmm...

Tesla needs to make sure whatever might change is viable and safe for the best driving experience to scale in their manufacturing long term, and not just some fashion techy trend of a 'new thing' or fad which really is performing the same control function, because style fads come and go all the time. I'm sorry but while there is a lot of smart experience and talent in here I just don't think a group of people in a forum of limited size, should be a deciding factor one way or another.

I still maintain that letting the wider public experience the many situations and provide such data to Tesla as they use the options, would be far more reliable to test real viability. Tesla is already aware that some things require large samples of data from diverse situations. That's why they're using a wider sample of owners to test FSD.

Here's a thought - why not just have both stalks and buttons included, with oval yoke standard and the round wheel available as an option too - configurable with software? They could even make the stalks removable if someone decided they would never use them. This way they still would have no manufacturing line divergence and the owner can customize later. Of course naysayers cry this would be 'expensive' too, but remember Tesla is doing this sort of thing already by including robust FSD hardware in All of their cars, regardless of whether owners opt to use it's full potential or not. This would not be nearly as expensive as what Tesla is already doing with that, and it's still a standardized manufacturing configuration for all. Tesla might even be able to get more valuable data this way too, as drivers may constantly choose one or the other.

- ÆCIII

 

[PilotPete]

People don’t like it. The poll here shows it. For some it’s a minor nuisance, for others it’s a constant minor nuisance. Very few prefer it. I know there are people for whom it’s a dealbreaker. It’s borderline one for me. Even if seemingly small, it’s something you have to put up with multiple times a day.

People don’t like it? Geez, you sound like my kids did when they were young; “I don’t like mashed potatoes!” “Child, you’ve never tried them. How can you not like them?” People haven’t lived with them. Most people haven’t even tried them. Spend some time with them and then I’ll add weight to everyones’ opinion.

I’ve said it before, in my mind, I can’t imagine flying with a side stick as well as I do with a central stick or a standard yoke. In my mind, it just doesn’t work. But when I have to go out and do flight testing on one, or even just go point A to point B with one, I don’t notice anything more than I have room in my lap for lunch! In fact, I might even fly it a little better. In the moment, I just do what I have to do, and it all translates. In my mind, I don’t see how.

The lack of stalks may absolutely suck. Or, I may like it better. I’ll let you know after I live with it for some time. But to stomp your feet and say you don’t like it without ever trying it, well, that’s kinda closeminded and childish. .

 

[newwave1331]

People don’t like it? Geez, you sound like my kids did when they were young; “I don’t like mashed potatoes!” “Child, you’ve never tried them. How can you not like them?” People haven’t lived with them. Most people haven’t even tried them. Spend some time with them and then I’ll add weight to everyones’ opinion.

I’ve said it before, in my mind, I can’t imagine flying with a side stick as well as I do with a central stick or a standard yoke. In my mind, it just doesn’t work. But when I have to go out and do flight testing on one, or even just go point A to point B with one, I don’t notice anything more than I have room in my lap for lunch! In fact, I might even fly it a little better. In the moment, I just do what I have to do, and it all translates. In my mind, I don’t see how.

The lack of stalks may absolutely suck. Or, I may like it better. I’ll let you know after I live with it for some time. But to stomp your feet and say you don’t like it without ever trying it, well, that’s kinda closeminded and childish. .

Looking at the survey, square wheel is probably the sweet spot of compromise if only one is available. Yoke is near 20% and they will be fine with a square wheel. Round wheel is at 28% and they will probably be ok with square but wouldn't want a yoke.

The issue is stalks or not. I saw somewhere on X that some aftermarket is doing stalks. Stalks are currently 57% vs 43% buttons/screen (to a very unique sample). I agree that early adopters will adapt but the masses might not. Accessories team could make the part

I experienced the ultrasonic sensor to vision change and its been a total failure. In time it might be ok but it isn't now. Yoke on the S/X was receiving enough feedback that they started making a round wheel standard and yoke a $1000 option. Does anyone with a newer S/X use auto gear select faultlessly? Cybertruck will be used in places most Tesla wouldn't go and do things they rarely do. How will it perform in those situations?

Not all changes Tesla does are perfectly timed or excepted by the masses. Stalkless will turn away some customers and make others frustrated. Stalks with an option to use buttons/screen will turnoff no one. Prove to me with user data when stalks are rarely used given the option. The EV transition will already take some courage from traditional ICE truck owners, stalkless might just push them back to GM/Ford/Toyota.

 

[SlegMD]

As long as gear shifting feature is instantaneously available at all times I’d be open to trying something new. I have avoided 2 minor accidents and a potential life threatening one with having the ability to instantly reverse at an intersection. So for me this is a must.

 

[newwave1331]

 

[Crissa]

If you can't keep your hands on the wheel when canted 90°, I dunno what to say. Make more practice.

And yeah, you do need to signal to exit, or change inner or outer phase of the circle. But you can plan and prepare to do that deliberately.

It's like, the one time you should signal while turning, and it's a slow-speed maneuver. Unless you're being unsafe. You wouldn't want to be unsafe, would you?

-Crissa

PS, no one is stopping you from adding them back, if you want to spend the money and time, I don't think.

 

[Setok]

People don’t like it? Geez, you sound like my kids did when they were young; “I don’t like mashed potatoes!” “Child, you’ve never tried them. How can you not like them?” People haven’t lived with them. Most people haven’t even tried them. Spend some time with them and then I’ll add weight to everyones’ opinion.

I’ve said it before, in my mind, I can’t imagine flying with a side stick as well as I do with a central stick or a standard yoke. In my mind, it just doesn’t work. But when I have to go out and do flight testing on one, or even just go point A to point B with one, I don’t notice anything more than I have room in my lap for lunch! In fact, I might even fly it a little better. In the moment, I just do what I have to do, and it all translates. In my mind, I don’t see how.

The lack of stalks may absolutely suck. Or, I may like it better. I’ll let you know after I live with it for some time. But to stomp your feet and say you don’t like it without ever trying it, well, that’s kinda closeminded and childish. .

It’s quite easy to try it. Just book a test drive of a Model S, as I did.

 

[Setok]

As long as gear shifting feature is instantaneously available at all times I’d be open to trying something new. I have avoided 2 minor accidents and a potential life threatening one with having the ability to instantly reverse at an intersection. So for me this is a must.

On the Model S I remember it wasn’t always available. Only after stopping. But I may recall wrong.

 

[Setok]

If you can't keep your hands on the wheel when canted 90°, I dunno what to say. Make more practice.

And yeah, you do need to signal to exit, or change inner or outer phase of the circle. But you can plan and prepare to do that deliberately.

It's like, the one time you should signal while turning, and it's a slow-speed maneuver. Unless you're being unsafe. You wouldn't want to be unsafe, would you?

-Crissa

PS, no one is stopping you from adding them back, if you want to spend the money and time, I don't think.

Turning to 90 degrees with the hands at 3 and 6 is awkward. It’s doable, but awkward, and awards you less control of the car (for instance if you hit ice). There are many roundabouts where you will turn the wheel more than 90 degrees. Then it becomes completely unreasonable to hold them in the same position.

You can plan all you want but if your wheel is turned round, so you go round the roundabout, and you need to indicate, then you’ll be searching for buttons. Even the Tesla driver himself was faffing around with that in one of the videos.

This is not some isolated special unique situation. This is a daily situation. Multiple times along common routes, even in Finland. Go to some place like the UK and there are even more roundabouts.

The same applies to tight bends with roads leading out. No amount of planning prevents that from happening, you’ll be reaching for the buttons in awkward and even upside down positions. Hell, I’ve faced that a few times when wanting to adjust the volume, and that’s a low priority task, unlike indicating.

And nobody has been able to explain what the user benefit here is.

 

[PilotPete]

It’s quite easy to try it. Just book a test drive of a Model S, as I did.

Trying it once in a test drive and living with it for a few months are two totally different things. And if you’re convinced you won’t like it, I promise you won’t.

 

[VR Driving]

I would have less issue with stalkless if they position the turn signal buttons correctly on the steering wheel. Ferrari did it right by putting the left signal for operation with the left thumb and the right signal for the right thumb. This works far better in practice than the current turn signal position using both left and right signal with the left thumb on the stalkless cars.

 

[fhteagle]

Round wheel (semi-flattened bottom okay), and stalks. This is the way.

 

[PilotPete]

I like big yokes and I cannot lie.…

Baby got yokes.

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