Texas Freeze Raises Cost Of Charging A Tesla To $900

Bud

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NNNNNNNNNNNNNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Blame others for your inadequate planning.
Shame on the Texas Grid system & Leaders for not spending the time and resources on their own power grid.
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cary1219

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Tell that to the people freezing because of it.

-Crissa
I'm one of them. Texas can mange itself without intervention from others.

While this is a large issue that will have to be remedied, it doesn't discount what Texas has accomplished during a time when the rest of the nation has not been able to.
 

Luke42

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That was my thought too. The Texas weather catastrophe is a typical Tuesday in NS. I get their systems not being ready, but I would think Turbine construction is pretty standard.
It looks like heated blades are optional when you buy a wind turbine:

The wind turbines here in Illinois seem to be doing just fine, and our winter weather is pretty similar to what Texas is experiencing this week.

The difference is that this weather happens to Illinois every winter, and any manmade outdoor structure which can't handle the weather is considered defective.
 

Quicksilver

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So far Alabama has escaped the mayhem that Texas is experiencing. But we did not get the snow load and sub-freezing temps that they did.
We have a diverse system of power generation here.......7 coal fired plants, 5 natural gas plants, 18 TVA dams, and three nuclear plants.
While there are a few solar farms here they generate very little power that goes to the grid.
The hydroelectric dams generate less than 10 percent of the state's power.
Most of our power is generated by the coal fired plants followed by nuclear and then the natural gas fired plants that are usually brought on line during peak usage or if there is an interruption in other systems.
As far as I know there are no wind farms currently on line.......the one they wanted to build near me a few years ago was met with fierce opposition and never got close to being built.
According to the anti-wind groups there is little potential for wind power in the state and the proposed wind farms were just being set up to take advantage of the government incentives and to sell green energy credits.
There were also issues with what would happen when the turbines reached the end of their lifespan. Who would pay for removal and what would happen to the non-recyclable blades and generators when they were taken down?
When our power goes out it is usually tornado related or ice storms. They are pretty good about getting it restored quickly.
Our record outage was about two weeks when a tornado took out a main line west of us and knocked down several big transmission towers a few years ago.
What is happening now in Texas is the blame game.........and there is enough to go around.
If you lose generation capacity regardless of the nature of that generation there is going to be problems and those suffering the consequences are going to be mad and look for someone to blame.
The anti-wind/solar groups came out sharpening their knives and the pro-alternative energy groups went after the fossil fuel industry because they had breakdowns in generating and transmission issues.
The fact that Texas is, for the most part, not connected to the rest of the national grid did not help since power from neighboring states couldn't be brought in to take up the slack.
I am a big fan of Alternative Energy.........I have a solar power system that I will put up to charge my CT when I'm home. I prob won't hook it to the grid because Alabama Power (part of the Southern Company) charges you to buy your power.
That being said you can take this to the bank........Alternative Energy (wind and solar) is never going to be a reliable source of enough power to run the infrastructure as it is now and as it will be as it expands as the population increases.
It may contribute a significant amount and be able to send power into the grid during peak daylight hours (solar) and when the wind is blowing at a rate that is optimal for generation (day or night).
But in certain areas you will never put in enough solar panels and wind gennys to provide a reliable amount of power with enough reserve for when a natural disaster happens. The math will never work out.
Once coal fired plants are shut down, along with the mines that feed them, that reserve potential is gone. Converting them to natural gas and keeping them on standby (which has happened to several here) makes more sense if there is sufficient natural gas to run them.
The radical environmentalists want to shutter the coal and natural gas plants and force a switch to wind and solar and they want it done by regulation by the government.
They also hate nuclear........we had two nuclear plants built to near completion only to have them shut down by the radicals. Millions of dollars of taxpayer and corporate money thrown down a rat hole and now those plants sit there as monuments to radical stupidity.
Before we pin all our hopes on Alternative Energy we better be damn sure we have the capacity to replace what we are now producing and the potential to increase production as it is needed.
I think a combination of AE and nuclear makes sense if we can build a few more nuclear plants and use them as backup to wind and solar.
 

Crissa

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Dude, coal plants shut down during freezes. The ice gets into the piles of coal and they turn into cement untll the thaw.

Natual gas turns into a liquid in the pipes, which makes equipment fail. You know those disk-shaped doodads where the natural gas comes nto your house? They're designed to stop liquid fuel from entering and putting out your pilot lights.

And as pointed out earlier, Texas lost more nuclear generation from the storm than they were even using from wind generation.

Fossil fuels are no better in the cold if they're not prepared for the cold. Which of course they weren't.

And worse, that carbon goes into our atmosphere and doesn't come out.

-Crissa
 

firsttruck

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I'm one of them. Texas can mange itself without intervention from others.

While this is a large issue that will have to be remedied, it doesn't discount what Texas has accomplished during a time when the rest of the nation has not been able to.

What has Texas accomplished that is better for most residents than the residents in other states?

More voter suppression

No electrical power for days in deadly winter weather after two previous incidents (1989, 2011).

Even after preventable disasters happen, Texas regulators & Texas legislature refuse to take action to regulate & inspect businesses that create or store dangerous materials?


-------------------


Texas has few zoning laws. Almost any type of dangerous plant CAN be next to homes and schools and they are
In Texas, 3,206,006 students attend school within the "vulnerability zone" of a high-risk petrochemical facility.

Texas does not regularly inspect plants for unsafe conditions. In most cases Texas does not even track where the dangerous stuff is located at all.

2005 BP Texas City Refinery (Texas City,TX) explosion

2009 El Dorado Chemical Company (Bryan,TX) fertilizer explosion

4 years after El Dorado Chemical Company (Bryan,TX) fertilizer explosion,
and NO actions taken to prevent the next incident. Did not even train fire fighters.

2013 West Fertilizer Company (West,TX) fertilizer explosion leveling roughly 80 homes and a middle school. Many deaths. 11 firefighters died and many injured.

2017 Arkema chemical plant (Crosby,TX) explosion
2019 TPC Group plant (Port Neches,TX) explosion
2019 Exxon Mobil plant (Baytown,TX) explosion
2019 ITC Deer Park petrochemical plant (Deer Park, TX) explosion


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ammonium_nitrate_disasters


The above list is just a few examples. There are many more explosions at chemical plants & refineries in Texas. Almost every year. Most plants are never forced to fix recurring problems that later cause disaster.

-------------------

Massive Explosion Rips Through Port Neches Texas Chemical Plant
November 27, 2019
Merrit Kennedy
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/27/783263942/massive-explosion-rips-through-texas-chemical-plant

.....
The explosion is the latest in a string of industrial incidents in the region. The Houston area saw three fires at chemical facilities in a month-long span in March and April — including an explosion at the KMCO plant in Crosby that killed a worker, as Houston Public Media's Florian Martin reported. In July, more than 30 people were treated for minor injuries after a fire at an Exxon Mobil refinery in Baytown.

"Within the last year, I have witnessed an unacceptable trend of significant incidents impacting the Gulf Coast region," Texas Commission on Environmental Quality Executive Director Toby Baker said in a statement. "While not all emergency events may be prevented, it is imperative that industry be accountable and held to the highest standard of compliance to ensure the safety of the state's citizens and the protection of the environment."

Environmental groups are also speaking out. "This should not be anyone's reality and unfortunately, it is for communities sitting at the fence-line of the petrochemical corridor along the Gulf Coast — an ever-growing corridor because of the billions of dollars being invested in petrochemical infrastructure related to plastic," Yvette Arellano from the Texas Environmental Justice Advocacy Service said in a statement.

-------------------


Special Report: Poor planning left Texas firefighters unprepared
By M.B. Pell, Ryan McNeill, Janet Roberts
May 22, 2013
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chemical-emergency-specialreport-idUSBRE94L19020130523

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firsttruck

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Was it technically difficult for Texas to winterize there fossil fuel and nuclear plants? NO, it was not.
Winterization is routinely done by most plants and has been standard practice for more than 100 years.

So why was it not done by Texas plants. One word "PROFIT". Extra profit for executives & shareholders. They rolled the dice for 10 years and won (pocketed the savings) for themselves and they will not lose any money now either. They will just pass costs on to customers (well at least the ones who aren't dead). A little investment that could have been done on past electric bills will now be huge bills in the future. The customers who have to pay those bills are the same customers who suffered great trauma and significant financial loses (spoiled food, burst water pipes, houses and furniture damaged, accidents and medical costs, resturants, grocery store, food supplier losses ).

nuclear makes sense if we can build a few more nuclear plants
You going to trust these same types of companies to run nuclear plants? Not me!!

I will never trust a for profit entity to run nuclear plant. They will always prioritize collect profit NOW and hope that disaster does not happen later. Besides the chances they will be the losers is very small. They will grab millions now and be gone before the disaster hits those other people.
 
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OneLapper

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"... wind turbines froze in the ice storms ...."
How come that doesn't happen in locations that are much colder than Texas?
Good point

I passed working wind turbines on my way to work this morning, and it's snowing here!

Edit: Nevermind. Just read post 33. Heated blades. Makes sense.
 

Luke42

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They also hate nuclear........we had two nuclear plants built to near completion only to have them shut down by the radicals
I feel obligated to point out that even the nuke plants in Texas went down because of problems getting cooling water in frozen conditions:
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/bu...oss-Texas-winter-storm-blackouts-15953686.php

One of the reactors in Texas was rightly shut down by its operators after cold weather interfered with the cooling water system. This was a correct decision for the safety of the nuke plant operators and South Texas in general -- nobody wants a meltdown.

The nuke plant upwind of my house in Illinois operates just fine in subzero temperatures, because we get this kind of weather every winter.

"Radical environmentalists" and a failure to build nuclear power aren't the problem in Texas. Texas is known for industry-friendly environmental laws, and the nuke plants are already there. Texas's famously industry-friendly way of doing things failed to winterize Texas's energy infrastructure. Yelling at environmentalists doesn't winterize electric power plants, engineering and construction does.

The same goes for natural gas plants in Texas. Natural gas plants in Illinois operate just fine in sub-zero weather, but ones in Texas froze up Because they weren't prepared for the weather. Yelling at environmentalists doesn't winterize electric power plants, engineering and construction does.

The Texans just weren't prepared for the kind of weather Illinoisians deal with on a routine basis. That's perfectly understandable, given the weather they typically see in their state.

If Texas had proper connections from the East Coast electrical grid, our fully-weatherized Illinois nuclear, coal, gas, wind, and solar (and electric plants in the rest of the eastern United States) could have helped carry Texas through this mess. But Texas culture and politics prevented that interconnection, and so they are less resilient as a result.

Either way, the answer to this is engineering. Yelling at environmentalists doesn't winterize electric power plants or provide any kind of systemic redundancy -- engineering and construction makes those things happen.
 
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azjohn

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The reason the power plants were not winterized is extreme cold weather is very rare in Texas. The current cold snap is the coldest it has been in over 100 yrs. You budget for what is expected and not for It might happen

Just like Phoenix doesn't have much of the budget for snow removal. I grew up in the Seattle area and they had a small budget for snow removal and if there was more than 6" of snow the area was crippled, I lived in New England in the 80s and there it was the opposite they would get a Nor'easter and it was business as usual, I had a truck and snow plow and it was money making time for me
 

Ehninger1212

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Also.. knowing someone who works for a wind energy company with wind turbines in west Texas, He was saying part of the problem is the counties decide to close off roads preventing the company from getting turbine's back on line. Apparently is not to difficult to do if you can reach them. However he also said they didn't have many go down really.
 
OP
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A Megabattery Boom Is Coming to Rescue Overloaded Power Grids
The race began at 100 megawatts. Now 300- and 400-megawatt plants are on the way.

By
Brian Eckhouse
and
David Stringer

The world’s overloaded power grids are on the cusp of a megabattery boom. California, keen to avoid last year’s blackouts, could add more than 2 gigawatts of energy storage, including from batteries, by summer. The frenzied rush to claim the title of “biggest battery” started in 2017, when Tesla Inc. and French renewable energy company Neoen SA installed the first 100-megawatt lithium-ion storage project in Australia. As systems get bigger, they can store and dispatch more energy. That’s seen the titleholder changing frequently—leading to Vistra Corp.’s 300MW Moss Landing project in California claiming the current top spot.



1800x-1.jpg

Moss Landing Energy Storage Facility, Monterey County, Calif.
COURTESY: VISTRA ENERGY

TODAY’S No. 1
● Moss Landing Energy Storage Facility
Monterey County, Calif.

Initial capacity: 300MW; 1,200 megawatt-hours
After expansion: 400MW; 1,600MWh

The system, consisting of more than 4,500 stacked battery racks, each with 22 battery modules, began operating in December. It can power 225,000 homes during peak-electricity pricing periods for four hours. Moss Landing, developed by Vistra, captures excess electricity from the grid. An expansion should be complete by August.

1800x-1.jpg

Neoen’s Tesla-powered Hornsdale Power Reserve, Australia.
COURTESY: NEOEN

KEY PREDECESSOR
● Hornsdale Power Reserve
near Jamestown, South Australia

Initial capacity: 100MW; 129MWh
After expansion: 150MW; 193.5MWh

A 100MW-capacity first phase, installed in 2017, became the world’s biggest battery, but was eclipsed by a larger site in San Diego County, Calif., last year. The facility, developed by French renewable energy company Neoen and using Tesla’s Powerpack batteries, has helped to stabilize South Australia’s renewables-heavy grid and to reduce the risks of blackouts.

POSSIBLE SUCCESSOR
● Anbaric Renewable Energy Center
Somerset, Mass.

Planned capacity: 400MW

One of the next big battery projects was announced in 2019 for a former coal-fired power plant site. Anbaric’s project could be up and running as soon as 2024. The battery has an estimated cost of $400 million. Anbaric designs its projects with four hours of storage.


SOURCE: Bloomberg Businessweek
 

Crissa

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They have plans for a big offshore wind array, too, which will feed those batteries, as well as putting more solar on local roofs.

Moss Landing is just south of my county, in the same municipal grid. It has gas plants and and a (disused) oil-fired plant. Still not enough when the winds get howling, but we're getting closer.

-Crissa
 
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ldjessee

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I had someone try to tell me that the north sea did not get freezing rain and no wind turbine can work in freezing rain... Some people think the rest of the world is just like the south only a little colder.
 

firsttruck

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The reason the power plants were not winterized is extreme cold weather is very rare in Texas. The current cold snap is the coldest it has been in over 100 yrs. You budget for what is expected and not for It might happen
It does not matter what coldest in history was.

What is important is at what temperatures problems will be encountered.
The coldest in 1895 of 9° is ill-relevant if you equipment fails at 12°F.

Just 10 years ago (2011) had colder temps and experts warned the utilities and government that the system needed to be winterized. Other relatively recent extreme cold day periods were Dec 22-25 1983 and Dec. 23-25, 1989.

--------------

Deadly cold snap shuts down central U.S. Texas is ground zero.
Over 4 million customers have lost power in Texas, as record-setting cold, snow and ice paralyze region
19 Feb. 2021
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2021/02/15/texas-oklahoma-record-cold/
.....
There have been three instances of rotating outages during an Energy Emergency Alert due to weather events in Texas, with the first occurring in 1989, according to Texas' grid operator ERCOT.

--------------

Texas Was Warned a Decade Ago Its Grid Was Unready for Cold
By Ari Natter
and Jennifer A Dlouhy
February 17, 2021, 1:55 PM CST Updated on February 17, 2021
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...a-decade-ago-its-grid-was-unprepared-for-cold


--------------

The city of El Paso,TX took action after the problems of 2011. El Paso might be only major city in Texas that did NOT have major problems this week.



--------------
 
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