Waiting for UAW shoe to drop?

[Crissa]

Not directly.

However, as a general rule, better outcomes are associated with better high level execs. And better high level execs tend to get paid more.

There's no way to measure that.

-Crissa

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[Love2Cyber]

There's no evidence that high executive compensation is associated with better outcomes.

-Crissa
[/QUOTE]

I love when people don't do any research and then claim "there is no evidence". Higher value businesses have higher paid executives - period. Bad executive decisions = company loses value, CEO is paid less. Plenty of evidence.

 

[PilotPete]

There's no way to measure that.

-Crissa

Wait, hold the (cyber)bus. Did you just say there is no way to measure how successful a CEO is by their track record and then look at their current or most recent compensation package? Because to me, that sounds like there is no way to measure who the best head coaches are in any given sport, and then figure out if the best ones get paid the most.

 

[Crissa]

I love when people don't do any research and then claim "there is no evidence". Higher value businesses have higher paid executives - period. Bad executive decisions = company loses value, CEO is paid less. Plenty of evidence.

That doesn't say what you want it to say. That just says they pay people more because they're bigger. Not because they're getting good performance or any change in their performance. There is nothing in that graph based upon performance; it doesn't show profitability, sustainability, growth, etc.

Wait, hold the (cyber)bus. Did you just say there is no way to measure how successful a CEO is by their track record and then look at their current or most recent compensation package? Because to me, that sounds like there is no way to measure who the best head coaches are in any given sport, and then figure out if the best ones get paid the most.

I said you can't measure a 'better' CEO. You can only assume better outcomes are associated with better CEOs. You can measure better outcomes.

But the vast majority of CEOs are not paid based upon the better-ness of the outcomes.

-Crissa

 

[Crissa]

Wait, hold the (cyber)bus. Did you just say there is no way to measure how successful a CEO is by their track record and then look at their current or most recent compensation package? Because to me, that sounds like there is no way to measure who the best head coaches are in any given sport, and then figure out if the best ones get paid the most.

I said you can't measure a 'better' CEO. You can only assume better outcomes are associated with better CEOs. You can measure better outcomes.

But the vast majority of CEOs are not paid based upon the better-ness of the outcomes.

-Crissa

 

[Love2Cyber]

I said you can't measure a 'better' CEO. You can only assume better outcomes are associated with better CEOs. You can measure better outcomes.

But the vast majority of CEOs are not paid based upon the better-ness of the outcomes.

-Crissa

What an exhaustingly stupid argument this whole thing is... Right - companies pay their CEOs on the basis of welfare, not performance. And - larger cap companies pay their CEOs more because hey - need to do something with the money...right?

The reality is that the vast majority of CEO compensation is performance based. Wonder why Ford CEO Farley made less money in 2022 vs. 2021? You guessed it - contrary to your opinion - the facts support that CEOs make less money when their companies make less money. That's about as performance based as you can get...

Would love to see some of the research that you must have on hand to support your opinion...

 

[Crissa]

The reality is that the vast majority of CEO compensation is performance based.

Citation needed. Or are you going to average in Elon's pay?

Why do companies need to pay a CEO based upon their market cap? They don't pay their employees upon market cap.

Why do they need to pay out golden parachutes?

-Crissa

 

[Love2Cyber]

Citation needed. Or are you going to average in Elon's pay?

Why do companies need to pay a CEO based upon their market cap? They don't pay their employees upon market cap.

Why do they need to pay out golden parachutes?

-Crissa

Again - you flail your opinions, but zero research or facts. Looking at a recent research article, approximately 20% of a CEO's salary is base and 80% is performancse based, on average. Bigger companies pay more because the responsibility is much greater. And no - a front line worker should not get paid based upon the size of the company - their responsibility is fixed / not variable based upon market cap.

This is such a dumb argument... Set your emotions aside and apply some critical thinking.

 

[FutureBoy]

A long strike may mean UAW workers may have to cancel their CT reservations.

If the union workers are getting so desperate that they need $100, the strike will be over.

 

[Crissa]

Again - you flail your opinions, but zero research or facts. Looking at a recent research article, approximately 20% of a CEO's salary is base and 80% is performancse based, on average. Bigger companies pay more because the responsibility is much greater. And no - a front line worker should not get paid based upon the size of the company - their responsibility is fixed / not variable based upon market cap.

This is such a dumb argument... Set your emotions aside and apply some critical thinking.

Yeah, it's a dumb argument. Because your argument is misleading.

Take Ford's CEO. His base pay is just shy of two million dollars.

But there's literally no way for him to make that or less: His 'performance' pay is over $15 million dollars in the stock. So if he halved the company's value, he'd still make ten million dollars. (2+8 performance)

Ugh.

And this doesn't count termination payments, perks, benefits, etc. Which would all also be part of the 'base' pay to anyone who wasn't trying to hide the CEO paycheck.

-Crissa

 

[pricedm]

There's no evidence that high executive compensation is associated with better outcomes.

-Crissa

I love when people don't do any research and then claim "there is no evidence". Higher value businesses have higher paid executives - period. Bad executive decisions = company loses value, CEO is paid less. Plenty of evidence.

[/QUOTE]

well....look at compensation of leadership team at Lucid (https://www.teslarati.com/lucid-peter-rawlinson-highest-paid-auto-ceo-2022/) compared to the industry

wish there was correlation between executive pay and company stock performance / employee pay, etc., but not so much in USA economy...

 

[Diehard]

Bad executive decisions = company loses value, CEO is paid less

Wouldn’t be more appropriate when company loses value, CEO loses something too? Like a limb?

It boggles my mind how the carrots and sticks in our system works. A CEO deciding if a car company goes Electric or not is a big decision that could mean in case of GM a $47 Billion company goes down to nothing. Does that mean that decision is worth $47 Billion? A monkey with a coin can make that decision. There is a false sense of value associated with decision making that is perpetuated by those that make them. People who invented wheel, compass, steam engine, concrete, printing press, transistors and antibiotics added much more value than most CEOs.

 

[Love2Cyber]

Wouldn’t be more appropriate when company loses value, CEO loses something too? Like a limb?

It boggles my mind how the carrots and sticks in our system works. A CEO deciding if the company goes Electric or not is a big decision that could mean in case of GM a $47 Billion company goes down to nothing. Does that mean that decision is worth $47 Billion? A monkey with a coin can make that decision. There is a false sense of vale is associated with decision making that is perpetuated by those that make them. People that invented wheel, compass, steam engine, concrete, printing press. Transistors, antibiotics, …. added much more value than most CEOs.

Your initial statement about "like a limb" is why they are appropriately paid. No - they are not paying for a monkey with a coin. As you can see - they have tenuous circumstances to navigate - which include China leading the EV race. How the "monkey with a coin" navigates overpaying the saps in the UAW while lagging the world's evolution to EV is why they are paid to make the magic happen. That said - I say - let them all strike and let's make these iphones in China. Assembling cars is not an intellectual exercise....and will not make us a global superpower.

 

[Crissa]

That said - I say - let them all strike and let's make these iphones in China. Assembling cars is not an intellectual exercise....and will not make us a global superpower.

Ahh, yes, so the next time there's a pandemic, or energy crisis, we can be dependent upon shipping heavy objects halfway around the planet?

CEOs don't do any of the work. Especially not highly paid ones.
https://workingcapitalreview.com/2016/08/studies-find-ceo-pay-not-linked-to-performance/

Lower paid CEOs in fact grew their companies more than higher paid CEOs.

-Crissa

 

[WHIZZARD OF OZ]

I said you can't measure a 'better' CEO. You can only assume better outcomes are associated with better CEOs. You can measure better outcomes.

But the vast majority of CEOs are not paid based upon the better-ness of the outcomes.

-Crissa

Deja Vu (?)

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