When we will see the final design?

charliemagpie

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Have you ever seen a presentation of the engineering evolution of the aluminum beverage can? It's pretty fascinating to learn what a highly optimized design the modern aluminum can is and how the optimization process happened over multiple decades. One small part of this evolution is that different areas of the can are different thicknesses to reduce the amount of aluminum to an absolute minimum. When I was a child, in the 1960's, beer and soda came in steel cans. Aluminum only started entering my consciousness in the 1970's and they were not nearly as light and efficient as they are today.

The Cybertruck with have reiterative improvements as well. Most of us will be buying version 1, at least initially. It will be relatively crude compared to the Cybertruck of 2035 which will be lighter, safer, and, the largest area of improvement, it will cost even less to build. Even the initial release of the first Cybertruck will likely feature different thicknesses of stainless steel, it won't all be exactly 3mm thick and it won't all be hardened to the same level, different areas will recieve different levels of hardening.

Some people have suggested the metal forming the door jambs will be regular painted steel because stainless cannot be stamped into complex compound curves. This is incorrect. Most 300 series stainless alloys can be easily stamped into deep and complex dies and they obtain a degree of work hardening through stamping. These 3D stampings will be welded to the cold-rolled body panels making them even stronger and more rigid in different directions so the Cybertruck chassis will retain a very high level of corrosion resistance without zinc rich primers and paint.

None of this is simple to achieve. The process of cold-rolling could be considered somewhat of a misnomer because the very act of cold-rolling under high pressure creates substantial heat in the metal being worked, up to 250C (480F). The temperatures reached in various parts of the metal affects the final properties of the material. The key to building strength with cold-rolling and cold forming is keeping the metal below the temperature of recrystallization. That is the temperature, well under the melt temperature, that the atomic structure of the metal can begin to rearrange. The metal will begin to temper (resoften) the longer and the higher the temperature. So cold-rolling involves applying cooling/lubricating liquids during the process. Changing the speed of the cold-rolling changes the temperatures and the properties of the product.

I'm also a layperson but, as an investor, I need a certain level of understanding of the processes involved to more accurately assess risk/reward of my investments. Obviously, the potential rewards of getting this right are enormous but it does involve a certain level of risk (delays, cost overruns, etc.) Tesla will not pass on any cost overruns of the production process directly to initial purchasers but will spread those costs over millions of Cybertrucks, over many years, making this kind of cost overrun of more interest to an investor than a Cybertruck buyer.

What should not be under-estimated is just what a fundamental change this is in the manufacture and design of light trucks. The product will be so superior, in so many fundamental ways, it will make traditional trucks laughably inadequate. Their expensive and soft, damage-prone exteriors and heavy, flexy frames will finally be understood to be quaint and antiquidated once people understand just how light, tough, strong, resistant to minor damage and work-capable the Cybertruck really is. Even Ford and Chevy's latest and greatest EV pickups will look dismal compared to the light, strong, rigid and damage resistant exoskeleton of the Cybertruck. Smarter farmers, fisherman, loggers, contractors and rednecks will be some of the first to understand the superiority of the Cybertruck, once they are actually exposed to it in a meaningful way.
++ all

Spot On re: Optimization

Tesla Cybertruck When we will see the final design? 1657157536856

Tesla Cybertruck When we will see the final design? 1657157569674
 


ldjessee

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Originally, shortly after the Cybertruck was revealed, I assumed it would be bent with an automated industrial brake. Given what I've seen over the last several months, I have a different take:

The SS panels will be progressively bent and progressively hardened at high speed on long lines full of hydraulic rollers. It will be surface hardened under high pressure rollers at 10-20 mph (or faster) as it is being bent to shape.

-snip roller description-

Tesla is continuing their tradition of increasing vertical integration by becoming their own metal foundry to roll-harden the Cybertruck! They can buy unhardened 3 mm thick stainless steel in huge rolls. The expense to tool for such an initiative is mind-boggling but Tesla can afford it and it demonstrates a real commitment to make the Cybertruck in huge volumes, over many years and at as low of a cost as humanly possible. It will take millions of Cybertrucks to pay off their investment in custom roll-hardening technology. This will also eventually lead to other tough, durable and futuristic vehicles (vans, hatchbacks and SUV's) using the same technologies giving them super tough exoskeletons that avoid the need for zinc dunk tanks, paintshops and paint defects, warranty rust claims, etc. all while reducing permitting requirements and improving air quality of new factories.
I have gotten that waviness in bent sheetmetal before, it was caused by not having a big enough brake and trying to make changes in small sections, doing small angles, trying to get to the final angle on a piece much longer than the brake... so I got ripples or sheetmetal stretch marks as one guy I worked with called them.

If you are not in a hurry, I have seen it work, but given the force required and these being prototypes, not sure if the person bending the SS just got better as they were making prototypes, or if they got a bigger brake, or maybe it is the massively large machine that will fold and work harden the stainless steel...

I think the scoring and bending process sounds like it will take up less space and be much faster...
 

HaulingAss

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I have gotten that waviness in bent sheetmetal before, it was caused by not having a big enough brake and trying to make changes in small sections, doing small angles, trying to get to the final angle on a piece much longer than the brake... so I got ripples or sheetmetal stretch marks as one guy I worked with called them.

If you are not in a hurry, I have seen it work, but given the force required and these being prototypes, not sure if the person bending the SS just got better as they were making prototypes, or if they got a bigger brake, or maybe it is the massively large machine that will fold and work harden the stainless steel...

I think the scoring and bending process sounds like it will take up less space and be much faster...
I'm gonna guess it was *not* 3mm cold-rolled stainless steel. ;)
 

SparkChaser

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The folding does not work harden the whole sheet so roller hardening will be the way to go. Using a brake stiffens the panel by creating the seams and hardened edges at the bend. To truly harden the full sheet it will have to be compressed in a roller or hardened in a salt bath or other tempering method. I thing the angular shape of the vehicle lends it self to the roller method.
 

JBee

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Sheet waviness on the later CT prototypes is mostly caused by inadequate straitening when unrolling the steel from a roll. The original was likely manufactured from flat pre-flattened stock and doesn't have the same look.

I wouldn't use that information to prove the roll hardening technique, but I can see how roll hardening might make sense as a manufacturing method for CT.

My biggest caveat is though that I have NO evidence that the "exoskeleton" as it is currently being marketed results into any substantial structural significance. The primary structure is still from stamped cabin frame, structural pack and front and rear castings.

Remember the CT only has a structural skin in the front and rea quarters, but the doors don't do anything except provide side impact protection when they are compressed into the cabin frame.


Tesla Cybertruck When we will see the final design? Tesla-Cybertruck-Exoskeleton-Body


If you remove the rear sail doors from the equation, there is even less "exoskeleton". Also consider "where" the structural loads are going to, most of them are going from load (mass) to the road through the wheels, not to the ends of the vehicle or lights...that means there is little to know load going from the front of the car into the front wheel, and not much from the rear of the car into the rear wheels. Struturely this is mostly taken care of by the front and rear casts, that could (would) support the whole load without the outside "exoskeleton" bodywork at all.

Either way there is more than one structural component to the CT design, and it is most definitely not primarily the outside shell. As such the outside SS of the CT might not serve much more of a roll than in a typical truck, in that it is a cover for what lays underneath that then holds most of it together.
 


HaulingAss

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Sheet waviness on the later CT prototypes is mostly caused by inadequate straitening when unrolling the steel from a roll. The original was likely manufactured from flat pre-flattened stock and doesn't have the same look.

I wouldn't use that information to prove the roll hardening technique, but I can see how roll hardening might make sense as a manufacturing method for CT.

My biggest caveat is though that I have NO evidence that the "exoskeleton" as it is currently being marketed results into any substantial structural significance. The primary structure is still from stamped cabin frame, structural pack and front and rear castings.

Remember the CT only has a structural skin in the front and rea quarters, but the doors don't do anything except provide side impact protection when they are compressed into the cabin frame.


Tesla-Cybertruck-Exoskeleton-Body.jpg


If you remove the rear sail doors from the equation, there is even less "exoskeleton". Also consider "where" the structural loads are going to, most of them are going from load (mass) to the road through the wheels, not to the ends of the vehicle or lights...that means there is little to know load going from the front of the car into the front wheel, and not much from the rear of the car into the rear wheels. Struturely this is mostly taken care of by the front and rear casts, that could (would) support the whole load without the outside "exoskeleton" bodywork at all.

Either way there is more than one structural component to the CT design, and it is most definitely not primarily the outside shell. As such the outside SS of the CT might not serve much more of a roll than in a typical truck, in that it is a cover for what lays underneath that then holds most of it together.
The "exoskeleton" includes the portions you call "stamped cabin frame". "Exo" refers to the exterior structure but it is not limited to only the outermost layer. They are welded together to act as one structural member. Unibody could be rightfully called "exoskeleton" but Cybertruck takes it one step further by making the outer layer do more. I mean, it's frickin' 3mm thick compared to, what, 1 mm or less on your typical unibody, light-duty vehicle.

The front and rear triangular shaped outer skins will add considerable torsional rigidity to the cast sections the suspension is attached to and will greatly reduce the need for other structural elements in this area. Look at the way the fore and aft sections brace the occupant cage. The cast sections would fail if the other skins were not present as soon as a large load was towed or hauled on unever surfaces at speed. The design is truely unique.

Tesla uses sophisticated 3D structural load modelling to design this and they know how it works and that it actually functions as an exoskeleton. It baffles me why you think you know more than the information they have actually released, especially when it directly contradicts what they have told us. Truely baffling.
 
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Cybr on

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I mean, it's frickin' 3mm thick compared to, what, 1 mm or less on your typical unibody, light-duty vehicle.
100%%
agree.


The front and rear triangular shaped outer skins will add considerable torsional rigidity to the cast sections the suspension is attached to and will greatly reduce the need for other structural elements in this area
My thoughts too. Also, The suspension will be built from the ground up specifically for the Cybertruck too.
Cybertruck is going to be one hell of a Truck!
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