Who really wants to know what the CT final specs and features are going to be? The OEMS.

[Crissa]

If you think that seats are going to last longer because the outside is made of stainless I'm a bit confused.

-Crissa

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[Ogre]

If you think that seats are going to last longer because the outside is made of stainless I'm a bit confused.

-Crissa

The seats aren’t made of stainless?!? I’m so disappointed.

Kidding aside, I think the seats will last a long time because they are made from the finest corinthian pleather. Made from Musk’s own personal herd of pleatherbeast on the plains of Texas.

 

[HaulingAss]

I am fine with Tesla not releasing the Specs until the CT is ready for production. What they need to do is to prioritize the CT release before the OEM catchup and they lose customers. 4680s should remain exclusively to CT and Tesla Semis until they ram up production. Upgrade the Model Y with 4680s should remain last. The Model y is an excellent vehicle at it is now.

I want to see the Cybertruck ramp ASAP, the sooner the better.

That said, Tesla is not going to lose customers or experience "OEM catchup" even if they didn't release the first one until 2026! I'm not kidding. Ford and GM are so so far behind Tesla it's not even funny. And while the Rivian might be a decent vehicle it has two things against it:

1) 4 foot bed is not a truck.
2) No volume production at a reasonable price point for years.

Nobody is going to "catchup" to Tesla in the next 5 years, probably not for 15 years or longer. It's more likely that Tesla will increase the gap when it comes to price, durability, capabilities and volume availability. People who think otherwise do not understand what is going on.

 

[HaulingAss]

My purpose of buying an EV truck is to save money over the life of the truck. Buying a replacement battery (if possible) would defeat my purpose if all I did was break even.

I also think the estimation for how much money is spent on ICE vehicle maintenance is generally inflated. I've owned 5 vehicles in my life (not including my wife's cars) 1 Cherokee, 2 x Ford Rangers, 1 Ford F250 and my current F150. I've needed 1 clutch replaced (Cherokee) and 1 radiator replaced (F250) but that was due to an accident opposed to any differed maintenance. Oh and I needed a new turbo for my F150. I've never had a major engine problem. All vehicles to include my current F150 were parked outside always. All vehicles had/have over 150k miles on them when sold. the F250 had about 270k on it.

$80 for an oil change x 3 changes a year = $240/yr x 10 yrs = $2,400. Call it $500 for brakes about every 30k miles. That's about 5 brake changes in 10 years = $2,500. Transmission flush, belt changes,...maybe another $1,000 over 10 years. We're at $6400 total. Gas is $130 per tank x 2 tanks per month = $3,120/yr and ~$32k after 10 years. For the sake of the argument I'll assume gas prices increase annually by 5% yr over yr. In 10 years gas would be about $6.20/gal (based $4/gal today in CO) and I would have spent about $44k in gas. I should be able to cut "fuel" cost with my CT by 2/3 so I will have saved ~$22k in gas. But I paid a premium up front to own the CT3 of about $15k, so gas savings minus the premium and I'm up $7k + $6,400 in maintenance cost. So I'm up $13,400 after 10 years...I'll add in another $5k in God knows what savings so now I'm at $18,400 saved. How much is that new battery going to cost me if I'm only getting 80% of the advertised range (400 miles) out of a charge in perfect conditions? My guess is that battery is more then $20k; so now I'm in the hole.

This does not account for any extra costs to insure the CT vs a comparable ICE 1/2 ton. I've seen arguments both ways. Some say it's more, some have said their insurance lowered. Lets call it a wash. It also doesn't account for the extra tire costs I keep hearing EV owners talk about.

What's funny is that the same people that will say I need to be spending more on preventive maintenance on my ICE truck (even though history tells me I haven't had to) are the same ones that will argue the CT doesn't need a spare tire because they've never needed one, but I will argue till I'm blue in the face that full size spare should be standard in all trucks. To each their own.

The Cybertruck is not more expensive than comparable ICE trucks that people typically buy once you consider all the standard featured like fully adjustable automatic suspension front and rear, ride height adjustable on the fly, on-board air compressor and 120v 240v outlets, all-metal motorized tonneau cover you can walk on, super tough dent resistant body, super hard glass, Autopilot, etc. etc. etc. All that for only $39K ($49K for 4x4)? There is no purchase premium you are talking about.

 

[SpaceYooper]

The Cybertruck is not more expensive than comparable ICE trucks that people typically buy once you consider all the standard featured like fully adjustable automatic suspension front and rear, ride height adjustable on the fly, on-board air compressor and 120v 240v outlets, all-metal motorized tonneau cover you can walk on, super tough dent resistant body, super hard glass, Autopilot, etc. etc. etc. All that for only $39K ($49K for 4x4)? There is no purchase premium you are talking about.

I disagree. I'm buying for a minimum range of 500 miles, and therefor the only option is the CT3 which currently starts at $69k. No ICE trucks will have the tech the CT has, so doing a direct apples to apples comparison isn't possible, but I know I can buy a well equipped 1/2 ton for $55k and get over 500 miles of range.

Over the course of 12-15 years, I agree the cost of the CTs falls right in line with the cost of an ICE truck...but not if it needs a new battery to maintain that 500 miles of range.

 

[HaulingAss]

I disagree. I'm buying for a minimum range of 500 miles, and therefor the only option is the CT3 which currently starts at $69k. No ICE trucks will have the tech the CT has, so doing a direct apples to apples comparison isn't possible, but I know I can buy a well equipped 1/2 ton for $55k and get over 500 miles of range.

Over the course of 12-15 years, I agree the cost of the CTs falls right in line with the cost of an ICE truck...but not if it needs a new battery to maintain that 500 miles of range.

The battery is warranted as long as the powertrain in an ICE vehicle. And it's a whole lot more reliable than the hot mess you need to maintain when you have expensive transmissions, fuel systems, exhaust, engine, and all the auxiliary systems required to make an ICE start and work.

But if all you want is a truck that can drive 500 miles with as little upfront cost as possible, operating costs be damned, just buy a Plain Jane 4x4 ICE truck with a 36 gallon fuel tank and not much other functionality. But don't come crying to me with a broken windshield, rusted out fender wells, no tonneau cover to protect your stuff, high roll-over risk, regular maintenance time and expenses, repairs, etc... It's still gonna cost you $55K upfront. I already have one of those and, no, it's not comparable to the Cybertruck except that they both have 4 wheels and they both get you and your stuff from A to B and back again. That's where the similarity ends. If you are happy with the status quo, more power to you!

 

[Ogre]

Over the course of 12-15 years, I agree the cost of the CTs falls right in line with the cost of an ICE truck...but not if it needs a new battery to maintain that 500 miles of range.

This is just wrong.

It will be massively lower even with the battery replacement — which probably won’t be needed. Without the battery it’s complete no-contest.

But. Done arguing you‘ve made up your mind.

 

[SpaceYooper]

This is just wrong.

It will be massively lower even with the battery replacement. Without the battery it’s complete no-contest.

But. Done arguing you‘ve made up your mind.

OK, show me how it will be massively lower. I've provided some simple numbers. If you want to contradict them I'm willing to learn. It's not as if I'm an anti-Tesla anti-CT person. I'm a huge fan and made a reservation for the top model within 24 hrs of the reveal. That's doesn't stop me from having practical concerns about it.

 

[SpaceYooper]

The battery is warranted as long as the powertrain in an ICE vehicle. And it's a whole lot more reliable than the hot mess you need to maintain when you have expensive transmissions, fuel systems, exhaust, engine, and all the auxiliary systems required to make an ICE start and work.

But if all you want is a truck that can drive 500 miles with as little upfront cost as possible, operating costs be damned, just buy a Plain Jane 4x4 ICE truck with a 36 gallon fuel tank and not much other functionality. But don't come crying to me with a broken windshield, rusted out fender wells, no tonneau cover to protect your stuff, high roll-over risk, regular maintenance time and expenses, repairs, etc... It's still gonna cost you $55K upfront. I already have one of those and, no, it's not comparable to the Cybertruck except that they both have 4 wheels and they both get you and your stuff from A to B and back again. That's where the similarity ends. If you are happy with the status quo, more power to you!

There is no warrantee yet for the battery in the CT.

If I wanted a bare bones 500 mile truck it wouldn't be $55k. I can get a new 21' Lariat for $55k.
If they made a 500+ mile range dual motor, that would be my reservation.

I'm not happy with the status quo, that's why I want an EV truck with 500 miles of range that I can be assured of for 15 years.

 

[Throwcomputer]

OK, show me how it will be massively lower. I've provided some simple numbers. If you want to contradict them I'm willing to learn. It's not as if I'm an anti-Tesla anti-CT person. I'm a huge fan and made a reservation for the top model within 24 hrs of the reveal. That's doesn't stop me from having practical concerns about it.

Just in the material and process choices of Tesla vs standard vehicle manufacturers, this video goes into excellent detail of how Tesla has actually reduced the overall cost of a vehicle 17% (i think is what he said) despite using 3x more expensive materials just in the frame and frame assembly process.




Granted he does say that over time, these benefits will be lost to high strength steel. But Tesla does have a knack for finding insane ways to optimize and reduce costs. And this video doesn't even get into the battery cost savings you guys are talking about, which will offset any equalling out of high strength steel to tesla alloy over time. So if you compare apples to apples tesla vs other manufacturers ev's then tesla is really saving buckets of money while also producing numbers way higher, which translates to an exponential curve of profits over the traditional manufacturers over the next 10 years.

 

[DarinCT]

The other OEM can't actually do anything about CT specs. The competitor brings what the competitor brings. Legacy OEM will surely get a CT, tear it down, and take notes. They can't benchmark the CT for price points or design elements because it's so new and different. (Who knows what kind of bias they would have against the benchmarks also.) They can't compete on cell technology and they will have already grabbed whatever 4680 cell pack already. It'll be news and chatter in OEM space for sure but more like the weather.

Who wants to know? After the rabid fans - ya know, us - the aftermarket does. The makers of truck tents to tool boxes to ladder racks to vinyl wraps to toppers to hauling equipment and tow rigs and more. If Tesla produces at scale, these makers want to be able to be first to market. Recommendations from fellow friends sell more than advertising and getting your product in buyer's hands before the competition is make or break.

Back to the OP's points about charging speed, range, performance and to a certain extent tech and durability, these are battery based. There are a handful of different battery technologies and each is unrelated to the next. Motorheads might want to nitpick the difference between a Chevy 3.6L vs a Ford 4.0L or a Duramax Diesel vs an EcoBoost vs a Powerboost ...zzzZZZzzz... sorry, I fell asleep for a moment there. Sure, we could try to compare MPGe or range but in the end Tesla produces at scale and competitively priced. The 4680 is slated to be better than anything any OEM can do as well. The OEMs will be looking at each other's offering to see who can battle for second place.

 

[SpaceYooper]

Just in the material and process choices of Tesla vs standard vehicle manufacturers, this video goes into excellent detail of how Tesla has actually reduced the overall cost of a vehicle despite using more expensive materials.




Granted he does say that over time, these benefits will be lost to high strength steel. But Tesla does have a knack for finding insane ways to optimize and reduce costs. And this video doesn't even get into the battery cost savings you guys are talking about, which will offset any equalling out of high strength steel to tesla alloy over time. So if you compare apples to apples tesla vs other manufacturers ev's then tesla is really saving buckets of money while also producing numbers way higher, which translates to an exponential curve of profits over the traditional manufacturers over the next 10 years.

We might be talking about two different things or I'm missing your point.
You seem to be saying I'm getting more value out of the purchase because it's higher quality and is offering more capability for $69k then a $55k ICE truck. That is not my argument.

I get that the manufacturing process from Tesla is great, innovative, and better then the big ICE company processes. Tesla may very well provide more value dollar for dollar then an ICE truck. That's not what I'm arguing.

I'm arguing that after paying more up front for the CT3 then what I would pay for an ICE truck and then determine what I actually save after 10 or 15 years of not paying for as much maintenance, and paying less for "fuel" it may not actually be a financial plus in my pocket, IF I'm not still getting the 500 miles of range and it requires a new battery and associated costs. Right now we don't even know if replacing a structural batter is even an option.

It is 100% fair to say that I'm not considering the resale value of both trucks at that 10-15 yr point.
Maybe after resale the CT does come out significantly on top. But we won't know that for quite a while. I have faith the CT will hold up to the test of time and it's suspension system will be as durable if not more durable then the competition, but if it doesn't or it's not...? Really looking forward to the CT showing up in Baja some day!

 

[Ogre]

OK, show me how it will be massively lower.

Other people have done the math you can look it up on the web if you are interested. As I said, tired of arguing.

 

[rr6013]

The other OEM can't actually do anything about CT specs. The competitor brings what the competitor brings. Legacy OEM will surely get a CT, tear it down, and take notes. They can't benchmark the CT for price points or design elements because it's so new and different. (Who knows what kind of bias they would have against the benchmarks also.) They can't compete on cell technology and they will have already grabbed whatever 4680 cell pack already. It'll be news and chatter in OEM space for sure but more like the weather.

Who wants to know? After the rabid fans - ya know, us - the aftermarket does. The makers of truck tents to tool boxes to ladder racks to vinyl wraps to toppers to hauling equipment and tow rigs and more. If Tesla produces at scale, these makers want to be able to be first to market. Recommendations from fellow friends sell more than advertising and getting your product in buyer's hands before the competition is make or break.

Back to the OP's points about charging speed, range, performance and to a certain extent tech and durability, these are battery based. There are a handful of different battery technologies and each is unrelated to the next. Motorheads might want to nitpick the difference between a Chevy 3.6L vs a Ford 4.0L or a Duramax Diesel vs an EcoBoost vs a Powerboost ...zzzZZZzzz... sorry, I fell asleep for a moment there. Sure, we could try to compare MPGe or range but in the end Tesla produces at scale and competitively priced. The 4680 is slated to be better than anything any OEM can do as well. The OEMs will be looking at each other's offering to see who can battle for second place.

SECOND?

SpaceX informs US. Look at the scale of disruption ElonMusk’s re-use in rocketry.

Only another BILLIONAIRE could self-fund a competitive product that can launch/land. How’s that going? Joyrides for millionaires…not even a bidding war/legal war can challenge early mover advantage, technology and success SpaceX owns.

Tesla technologically are a paradigm shift away from its next closest competitor. Tesla success captured mindshare of the BEV market to the point people have buy-in. They are buying Teslas. - not EV’s.

The national NEV priority of China is Tesla’s nearest competitor, yet even a finalist in competitive form factor has yet to emerge. China whack-a-mole tendency toward independent thinking Ma-style entrepreneurship is operative.

That leaves?

 

[SpaceYooper]

Other people have done the math you can look it up on the web if you are interested. As I said, tired of arguing.

I have. That's why I was providing a counter. But thanks.

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