You might owe more than just your deposit if you cancel your Cybertruck order.

[Fctryseald]

Received the invite to order the Foundation series and wasn’t sure if I wanted to pay the extra $20k, but decided I would go ahead and and order and worse case if I changed my mind, I would have to eat the $250 order fee. But after reading the fine print, looks like Tesla wants your original $100,

the $250 and the $2k delivery fee as well.

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[Rutrow]

Received the invite to order the Foundation series and wasn’t sure if I wanted to pay the extra $20k, but decided I would go ahead and and order and worse case if I changed my mind, I would have to eat the $250 order fee. But after reading the fine print, looks like Tesla wants your original $100,

the $250 and the $2k delivery fee as well.

They're talking "actual damages", so the cost they incurred delivering the truck to your pick-up location, then returning it back to where it's needed next, along with the diminished value that a new buyer might claim based on the fact that "You mean somebody else already owned this VIN before me? ? Why did they reject it?!? ? I'd really rather have one with a spotless title thank you... ?" ... they might expect a bit of a discount. Perhaps it shouldn't matter, but if it were me, and I had the choice between two vehicles for the same (very high) price, I'd choose the most pristine.

 

[Fctryseald]

They're talking "actual damages", so the cost they incurred delivering the truck to your pick-up location, then returning it back to where it's needed next, along with the diminished value that a new buyer might claim based on the fact that "You mean somebody else already owned this VIN before me? ? Why did they reject it?!? ? I'd really rather have one with a spotless title thank you... ?" ... they might expect a bit of a discount. Perhaps it shouldn't matter, but if it were me, and I had the choice between two vehicles for the same (very high) price, I'd choose the most pristine.

I can understand that. So if you’re going to cancel, cancel before they assign a VIN.

 

[fiveten]

That language (along with the non-resale provision) was not in the listed terms when I placed my $250 deposit, but did appear afterwards in my order agreement.

 

[davelloydbrown]

that's why the deposit fee is now $1000, because people are not following up with a purchase. Also you are now out of the queue and if you want back in you start at the bottom.

 

[Huntsman]

that's why the deposit fee is now $1000, because people are not following up with a purchase. Also you are now out of the queue and if you want back in you start at the bottom.

If I were king… Tesla needs to pause and get their act together before proceeding. We are all eager to take delivery but some of the things fellow forum’rs are finding, learning, sharing; has everyone a bit skeptical. The sequencing of who gets notified, probably makes perfect algorithmic logic to a computer but to humans, not so much. The manner in which options are evolving seems sophomoric with regard to marketing. I know I’m in the minority as all you previous Tesla owners have been through this and regularly declare this to be normal Tesla ops but the ambiguity surrounding a 100k investment reflects poorly on Tesla as the leader in technologically advanced EV’s. If I were a foundation series participant I might want to cancel too as much out of principal not wanting to do business with a company so disorganized - in my opinion.

 

[davelloydbrown]

If I were king… Tesla needs to pause and get their act together before proceeding. We are all eager to take delivery but some of the things fellow forum’rs are finding, learning, sharing; has everyone a bit skeptical. The sequencing of who gets notified, probably makes perfect algorithmic logic to a computer but to humans, not so much. The manner in which options are evolving seems sophomoric with regard to marketing. I know I’m in the minority as all you previous Tesla owners have been through this and regularly declare this to be normal Tesla ops but the ambiguity surrounding a 100k investment reflects poorly on Tesla as the leader in technologically advanced EV’s. If I were a foundation series participant I might want to cancel too as much out of principal not wanting to do business with a company so disorganized - in my opinion.

I have been a tesla fanboy since 2016, but I am getting weary.

The whole year of 2022 when Elon bought twitter and sold stock was exhausting to be a tesla investor.

But I think the final straw was a 50-60% increase in the CT price and a reduction in the beast's performance. IMO this is far more egregious than the initial M3 pricing.

Tesla produces revolutionary products, but Elon is living in another dimension.

 

[cvalue13]

They're talking "actual damages", so the cost they incurred delivering the truck to your pick-up location, then returning it back to where it's needed next, along with the diminished value that a new buyer might claim based on the fact that "You mean somebody else already owned this VIN before me? ? Why did they reject it?!? ? I'd really rather have one with a spotless title thank you... ?" ... they might expect a bit of a discount. Perhaps it shouldn't matter, but if it were me, and I had the choice between two vehicles for the same (very high) price, I'd choose the most pristine.

To clarify and correct a bit, this provision doesn’t quite work that way.

It’s not talking about actual damages, it’s talking about liquidated damages which (in short) are only available under law when actual damages couldn’t be calculated. So, the parties ~agree on a pre-defined amount of “liquidated damages” if the subject event occurs.

here, the pre-agreed amounts are basically, amounts the customer has already paid with respect to X, Y, Z

so if you’ve only paid fee X by the time you’ve cancelled, then the liquidated damages are the amountX

if instead by the time you’ve cancelled you’ve already paid X, Y, and Z, then the liquidated damages are the amount of X, Y, and Z, total.

I can understand that. So if you’re going to cancel, cancel before they assign a VIN.

I don’t know which of X, Y, or Z, would have been paid by VIN assignment to a customer

But, in theory, if you haven’t paid the transportation fee yet, they wouldn’t/couldn’t keep it

But theory in these things are merely cute. Reality of sloppy business is that they may not pay as close practical attention as you, even after you cancel still pull a lever that means now the burden is on you to prove which fees were paid when,etc.


so yeah, technically the above is how it works, but practically I wouldnt bet the farm on it playing out as it should

 

[HaulingAss]

The whole year of 2022 when Elon bought twitter and sold stock was exhausting to be a tesla investor.

Really? Are you a relatively new investor? I've been investing since the 1980's and I've never had an easier stock to hold. I've had ones that appreciated faster, and crashed harder, ones that didn't do anything, plenty of companies that were widely misunderstood, but TSLA is probably the best long-term risk/reward I've ever seen. It's not my most profitable stock, as I'm "only" up 15X so far. But the Tesla story is still in the early days.

Most of the drama you see around Tesla is just meaningless noise. Otherwise known as FUD. As an investor it's important to keep your eye on the ball, not on the fans in the stadium. And when I look at Tesla's business trajectory, ignoring all the fake noise, what I see is nothing short of incredible. I established my position in early 2019, when the fake news and FUD was at its strongest, and it's been a wonderful ride with few doubts. You just need to be able to keep your eye on the ball, not the share price, as you laugh at all the fake noise. To those who can't tell what's real from what's fake, I feel for you. You probably shouldn't be investing in individual companies at all.

Elon's investment in Twitter actually strengthens the TSLA bull case due to him being having his foot in the media. Elon selling TSLA shares to fund the purchase does not impact Tesla (the company) at all. But we sure heard a lot of fake noise that it was a bad thing, even though no one has been able to articulate how those sales impacted Tesla (the company) negatively. Don't get me wrong, the share price was impacted due to simple supply and demand of TSLA shares, especially coupled with all the fake noise and FUD that scared newbie investors. But real investors know that, in the long run, every company will be valued by the company's actual performance, their growth rate and their future opportunities, not stock sales for unrelated reasons. That is always a temporary impact that is meaningless to a long-term investor.

I don't see any likely scenarios where Tesla is not worth 4 times its current value within 5 years (and more likely within 3 years). That is simply two doublings. Investing is all about a company's future value and how likely it is to obtain that value.

Many investors and fund managers seem overly focussed on day-to-day, and week-to-week, moves in the share price. In other words, they are always watching what other investors are doing instead of the actual company. Paying attention to what other investors are doing is the quickest way to ruin your returns.

I've always invested in companies I expected to be disruptive, so I'm accustomed to high volatility. Investors who cannot emotionally handle volatility will have poor returns and shouldn't be investing in disruptive companies. I pay little attention to the share price and focus on a company's actual position in the market (not the stock market), their execution and rate of growth, and their opportunities looking forward.

About the only thing I've really been disappointed in over the last 4 years was the speed of 4680 cell development. But that kind of thing is hard to predict. I still think the battery business will turn out to be wildly profitable because I don't see any other battery technology that has a good enough price to performance ratio to compete. Solid state batteries have serious cost issues and performance issues in terms of lifespan. It takes years to turn things like that around, if ever. In the meantime, the dry cell is the closest thing we have to a product that meet market needs at viable prices.

Buying and holding superior companies is the way to great wealth over time. Getting rich quickly is over-rated because there is no predictable path to make that happen. That said, the best way to get rich quickly is to buy and hold superior companies. Even the lucky ones who buy right before a major breakout, tend to fail by selling far too soon. They have an irrational desire to lock in their gains (which often causes them to leave most of the future gains on the table).

TSLA is worth over 160 times it's value when they went public just over 10 years ago. That means a relatively modest investment of $30K is now worth nearly $5 million dollars. And about the only people who actually have TSLA gains of that magnitude are those who bought and held. That's how you compound your gains. Those who tried to time the market, almost without exception, have much lower returns (and worked a lot harder and stressed a lot more). TSLA is an easy stock to hold for the long-term. Tesla will not only be an energy company of the 21st century, but also a robotics company. The future doesn't look like today.

 

[davelloydbrown]

Really? Are you a relatively new investor? I've been investing since the 1980's and I've never had an easier stock to hold. I've had ones that appreciated faster, and crashed harder, ones that didn't do anything, plenty of companies that were widely misunderstood, but TSLA is probably the best long-term risk/reward I've ever seen. It's not my most profitable stock, as I'm "only" up 15X so far. But the Tesla story is still in the early days.

Most of the drama you see around Tesla is just meaningless noise. Otherwise known as FUD. As an investor it's important to keep your eye on the ball, not on the fans in the stadium. And when I look at Tesla's business trajectory, ignoring all the fake noise, what I see is nothing short of incredible. I established my position in early 2019, when the fake news and FUD was at its strongest, and it's been a wonderful ride with few doubts. You just need to be able to keep your eye on the ball, not the share price, as you laugh at all the fake noise. To those who can't tell what's real from what's fake, I feel for you. You probably shouldn't be investing in individual companies at all.

Elon's investment in Twitter actually strengthens the TSLA bull case due to him being having his foot in the media. Elon selling TSLA shares to fund the purchase does not impact Tesla (the company) at all. But we sure heard a lot of fake noise that it was a bad thing, even though no one has been able to articulate how those sales impacted Tesla (the company) negatively. Don't get me wrong, the share price was impacted due to simple supply and demand of TSLA shares, especially coupled with all the fake noise and FUD that scared newbie investors. But real investors know that, in the long run, every company will be valued by the company's actual performance, their growth rate and their future opportunities, not stock sales for unrelated reasons. That is always a temporary impact that is meaningless to a long-term investor.

I don't see any likely scenarios where Tesla is not worth 4 times its current value within 5 years (and more likely within 3 years). That is simply two doublings. Investing is all about a company's future value and how likely it is to obtain that value.

Many investors and fund managers seem overly focussed on day-to-day, and week-to-week, moves in the share price. In other words, they are always watching what other investors are doing instead of the actual company. Paying attention to what other investors are doing is the quickest way to ruin your returns.

I've always invested in companies I expected to be disruptive, so I'm accustomed to high volatility. Investors who cannot emotionally handle volatility will have poor returns and shouldn't be investing in disruptive companies. I pay little attention to the share price and focus on a company's actual position in the market (not the stock market), their execution and rate of growth, and their opportunities looking forward.

About the only thing I've really been disappointed in over the last 4 years was the speed of 4680 cell development. But that kind of thing is hard to predict. I still think the battery business will turn out to be wildly profitable because I don't see any other battery technology that has a good enough price to performance ratio to compete. Solid state batteries have serious cost issues and performance issues in terms of lifespan. It takes years to turn things like that around, if ever. In the meantime, the dry cell is the closest thing we have to a product that meet market needs at viable prices.

Buying and holding superior companies is the way to great wealth over time. Getting rich quickly is over-rated because there is no predictable path to make that happen. That said, the best way to get rich quickly is to buy and hold superior companies. Even the lucky ones who buy right before a major breakout, tend to fail by selling far too soon. They have an irrational desire to lock in their gains (which often causes them to leave most of the future gains on the table).

TSLA is worth over 160 times it's value when they went public just over 10 years ago. That means a relatively modest investment of $30K is now worth nearly $5 million dollars. And about the only people who actually have TSLA gains of that magnitude are those who bought and held. That's how you compound your gains. Those who tried to time the market, almost without exception, have much lower returns (and worked a lot harder and stressed a lot more). TSLA is an easy stock to hold for the long-term. Tesla will not only be an energy company of the 21st century, but also a robotics company. The future doesn't look like today.

Yeah I have been investing since the 90's and have made and lost lots of money. I also have three university degrees one of which is an MBA and I had an interest in finance.

You know if you keep your comments a little bit shorter and are less long winded, someone might actually read them in their entirety.

 

[HaulingAss]

Yeah I have been investing since the 90's and have made and lost lots of money. I also have three university degrees one of which is an MBA and I had an interest in finance.

You know if you keep your comments a little bit shorter and are less long winded, someone might actually read them in their entirety.

If you're bright, you will see it's a long post and can choose to read it or skip over it. Not everyone has the attention span of an MBA. ?

 

[Arctic_White]

Really? Are you a relatively new investor? I've been investing since the 1980's and I've never had an easier stock to hold. I've had ones that appreciated faster, and crashed harder, ones that didn't do anything, plenty of companies that were widely misunderstood, but TSLA is probably the best long-term risk/reward I've ever seen. It's not my most profitable stock, as I'm "only" up 15X so far. But the Tesla story is still in the early days.

Most of the drama you see around Tesla is just meaningless noise. Otherwise known as FUD. As an investor it's important to keep your eye on the ball, not on the fans in the stadium. And when I look at Tesla's business trajectory, ignoring all the fake noise, what I see is nothing short of incredible. I established my position in early 2019, when the fake news and FUD was at its strongest, and it's been a wonderful ride with few doubts. You just need to be able to keep your eye on the ball, not the share price, as you laugh at all the fake noise. To those who can't tell what's real from what's fake, I feel for you. You probably shouldn't be investing in individual companies at all.

Elon's investment in Twitter actually strengthens the TSLA bull case due to him being having his foot in the media. Elon selling TSLA shares to fund the purchase does not impact Tesla (the company) at all. But we sure heard a lot of fake noise that it was a bad thing, even though no one has been able to articulate how those sales impacted Tesla (the company) negatively. Don't get me wrong, the share price was impacted due to simple supply and demand of TSLA shares, especially coupled with all the fake noise and FUD that scared newbie investors. But real investors know that, in the long run, every company will be valued by the company's actual performance, their growth rate and their future opportunities, not stock sales for unrelated reasons. That is always a temporary impact that is meaningless to a long-term investor.

I don't see any likely scenarios where Tesla is not worth 4 times its current value within 5 years (and more likely within 3 years). That is simply two doublings. Investing is all about a company's future value and how likely it is to obtain that value.

Many investors and fund managers seem overly focussed on day-to-day, and week-to-week, moves in the share price. In other words, they are always watching what other investors are doing instead of the actual company. Paying attention to what other investors are doing is the quickest way to ruin your returns.

I've always invested in companies I expected to be disruptive, so I'm accustomed to high volatility. Investors who cannot emotionally handle volatility will have poor returns and shouldn't be investing in disruptive companies. I pay little attention to the share price and focus on a company's actual position in the market (not the stock market), their execution and rate of growth, and their opportunities looking forward.

About the only thing I've really been disappointed in over the last 4 years was the speed of 4680 cell development. But that kind of thing is hard to predict. I still think the battery business will turn out to be wildly profitable because I don't see any other battery technology that has a good enough price to performance ratio to compete. Solid state batteries have serious cost issues and performance issues in terms of lifespan. It takes years to turn things like that around, if ever. In the meantime, the dry cell is the closest thing we have to a product that meet market needs at viable prices.

Buying and holding superior companies is the way to great wealth over time. Getting rich quickly is over-rated because there is no predictable path to make that happen. That said, the best way to get rich quickly is to buy and hold superior companies. Even the lucky ones who buy right before a major breakout, tend to fail by selling far too soon. They have an irrational desire to lock in their gains (which often causes them to leave most of the future gains on the table).

TSLA is worth over 160 times it's value when they went public just over 10 years ago. That means a relatively modest investment of $30K is now worth nearly $5 million dollars. And about the only people who actually have TSLA gains of that magnitude are those who bought and held. That's how you compound your gains. Those who tried to time the market, almost without exception, have much lower returns (and worked a lot harder and stressed a lot more). TSLA is an easy stock to hold for the long-term. Tesla will not only be an energy company of the 21st century, but also a robotics company. The future doesn't look like today.

Another incredible and an amazing post. You are a wealth of knowledge.

I wholeheartedly agree with your post above. Holding TSLA isn't for the faint of heart.

How much of your portfolio is in TSLA right now? Do you have a certain threshold for when you will sell? What are your timelines?

 

[awhehackeur]

Another incredible and an amazing post. You are a wealth of knowledge.

I wholeheartedly agree with your post above. Holding TSLA isn't for the faint of heart.

How much of your portfolio is in TSLA right now? Do you have a certain threshold for when you will sell? What are your timelines?

Ditto

 

[HaulingAss]

Another incredible and an amazing post. You are a wealth of knowledge.

I wholeheartedly agree with your post above. Holding TSLA isn't for the faint of heart.

How much of your portfolio is in TSLA right now? Do you have a certain threshold for when you will sell? What are your timelines?

Roughly, 50%, everyone has unique financial situations so that number is meaningless. If it goes on a bull run, I'm fine letting it go to 90% or more, it depends upon the strength of the run and why it's running up. I tend to not ever invest more than 30% when establishing a position (and that number gets lower the older I get), it depends upon how much potential downside I think is possible in the worst-case scenario. I will sell some chunks if I need the money (I've been retired for over 20 years) or it takes over my portfolio completely, but I refrain from selling just because I think the share price might correct lower. That's just a beginner move. In my experience, you cannot predict these things well enough for it to make sense to pay the capital gains. If you sell stock, you have to find someplace else to put that capital that you think has a better risk/reward ratio. And if you put it somewhere else that ends up having lower returns, you are effectively losing money.

I have no fixed rules, I just wing it and don't look at it as "money" but a piece of a company that is likely to continue to increase in value. I would sell it all if the company looked like it had lost its ability to outperform but I wouldn't base that on share price movements, only changes in how the company performs. I think we are a long way from that.

 

[Scott Beall]

You know if you keep your comments a little bit shorter and are less long winded, someone might actually read them in their entirety.

I refrain from selling just because I think the share price might correct lower. That's just a beginner move. In my experience, you cannot predict these things well enough for it to make sense to pay the capital gains.

Yep and that's why I read every bit of @HaulingAss' detailed posts (and @cvalue13 and @JBee ). They saved me some money last month and have provided copious entertainment and enlightenment. Plus I learn new words from time to time, like rehomogolation.

If you're not interested, just scroll on by.

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