The Competition: 2024 Silverado EV Reviews Are In

[charliemagpie]

I think it is ridiculous to add 50% to the original pricing.

And unrealistic to expect 4 year old prices.

Not forgetting we had Covid, handouts, inflation in between.

I don't compare legacy prices, because to do so is to ignore Tesla's profits to legacy losses. Farley has admitted that much.

we will know soon enough.

Addon :

BTW, not disputing. Just wish to point our the Model Y is outselling the nearly half priced Corolla.

Just had a quick look.... The traditional truck market ?

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[CyberT]

I'm not a fan of the contoured "styling" on the tailgate. It looks like someone backed into an immovable object.

That was my first thought too when I watched the video

 

[cvalue13]

Why Chevy didn't name this the "EValanche" is beyond me

Not because it's a 'good' name, but because choosing that name would be sort of on-brand

 

[Ogre]

Here’s what Cybertruck is competing against in the eyes of most consumers.

 

[Ogre]

True. And Elon also said that Cybertruck and its corresponding profits will not be material for their bottom line overall.

Musk said this for 2023, not forever!!

Long term Cybertruck will have a huge impact on Tesla’s bottom line!

I do think they will start off with ~$80K for a 420-mile variant and will come up with a 500+ mile variant later on, along with a sub-$50K dual motor variant.

I definitely see a chance Tesla offers something a bit more expensive first. Though I seriously doubt it will be $10k more expensive and much shorter range to boot.

 

[cvalue13]

For 2023!!

Long term Cybertruck will have a huge impact on Tesla’s bottom line!

I don’t think that’s the comments he’s talking about.

CyberRoundup Q&A:

Q: “what will be CT production when fully ramped “

A: “we’re likely to do probably a quarter million a year, I think, maybe more … we don’t just need to ramp up production we also need to improve production cost efficiency, but I’d say a quarter a million a year is a reasonable guess. It might be 500,000 I don’t know. In the grand scheme of things relative to the production rate of all the other cars we make it will be small.”

 

[charliemagpie]

Good things come to those who wait.

 

[Crissa]

Maybe. It took Tesla years to even approach the promised $30k M3 price. And still they are not there. Lofty goals meet reality.

"Years" = 21 months? That's not even two.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3#:~:text=The Tesla Model 3 is,line on July 7, 2017.

https://electrek.co/2019/04/15/tesla-delivers-35000-model-3/

The Cybertruck was always Model Y priced. The Rivian has more screws in it and more colors than a Model X and they're supposed to be the same price as the full gigacast Cybertruck without paint and driver's display?

-Crissa

 

[Knucklehead]

The first vehicles off the production line of all manufacturers are always sold at a loss and the first few thousand Cybertrucks will be no exception, even when costing out tooling and buildings over their expected lifespans. But as production starts humming along, like a well-oiled machine, profits will suddenly appear. And they will grow over time.

But I have to think you have been living under a rock if you are completely unaware of Tesla's huge lead in manufacturing efficiency. Tesla can make an EV more efficiently than any other automaker today. And the difference in cost of manufacturing of Tesla vs. Ford, GM and Stellantis is stark. They are not even in the same ballpark as Tesla when it comes to manufacturing efficiency.

This is evidenced by the fact that Tesla has higher profit margins on their EV's than legacy auto has on their ICE vehicles. Legacy auto even has to pay outside software developers to write the code their vehicles need to operate. Legacy auto buys almost every component that is not part of the engine, transmision or chassis (and even much of that they buy). Tesla is vertically integrated and has carefully crafted every step of the way to be more cost effective, they even make all their own seats which is unheard of today. Legacy auto has to spend billions on advertising just to try to hold onto the market share they have while Tesla grows their marketshare with no advertising expense. Because of all of these things (and more), Tesla has the most pricing power in the industry.

Tesla can sell a much better truck, for a lot less money, and actually make a good profit while legacy auto is crippled, they can only sell a lesser quality truck, with inferior specs, for a higher price and yet they still lose a ton of money. That's why I say the difference is stark.

Tesla is more efficient every step of the way, from sourcing parts and materials to delivering the vehicles (and all the manufacturing in between). I've been writing about this for over three years now, I'm surprised you haven't connected the dots. And the difference is not narrowing, as the mainstream media would have you believe with their ridiculous stories about how the competition is always right around the corner (for the last 6 years now). It was a false narrative 6 years ago and it's a false narrative now. But that doesn't stop them from recycling it over and over and sheeple people just lap it up because, of course, GM and Ford and Stellantis are mightier and more experienced than Tesla. Of course.

But here's the problem with that narrative: When a company has been on top so long, and processes throughout the organization are just refined, and never completely overhauled, well, technology keeps marching forward, and, before you know it, there are better ways to do things. And guess what is more difficult than learning a new way to do something? That's right, unlearning the old way. Legacy auto has heaps and heaps of processes they need to unlearn. These processes were useful at one time but now, with EV's being a completely different product, they are like a ball and chain on legacy organizations. These organizations don't even know how to unlearn them, it's a completely foreign concept to the corporate culture. Tesla employees routinely do things that would get them fired at a legacy automaker. And this is the source of Tesla's expanding lead when it comes to efficiency of manufacture and bringing value to buyers of new vehicles while still having some nice profit left over so they can re-invest it in themselves. In becoming bigger and more efficient.

Tesla's biggest competition is Tesla, they make and sell far more EV's in N. America than all the other manufacturers combined. And all the rest lose huge amounts of money on EV's because they literally cannot price them at the cost of manufacture. As Tesla continually ramps production and sales higher, the prices will have a long-term downtrend. But this is not a problem because the higher volumes and constant manufacturing innovation will cover this long-term price decline. This is what it looks like when Tesla is Tesla's biggest competition.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that the cost to produce a vehicle of a given specification is fixed, it depends upon how competent the maker is when it comes to efficiency. And Tesla is heads and shoulders above the rest when it comes to competency, so the price gulf of two cars with the same specs, one designed, built and sold by Tesla, and one designed and built by legacy auto and sold through their dealer networks will be huge, surprisingly huge. That's how big the gulf between Tesla and the rest really is.

Tesla has surgically removed the fat every step of the way and they are not done yet, either. The amount of fat in legacy auto is shockingly huge (and surprisingly hard to get rid of) and buyers of legacy vehicles pay for every last cent of it. Legacy auto no longer efficiently serves the needs of buyers of new vehicles in the manner that allowed them to rise to the top. That is why they will now fail. They cannot turn their sinking ships around quickly enough. At best, they will become a tiny shadow of their former selves, more likely they will go down in flames with huge debt. They have already failed; they just don't know it yet.

Mainstream media will constantly trot out story after story implying that Tesla is about to get run over by legacy auto. But these are flimsy stories based on nothing but misinformation and rank speculation that is supported by nothing that is relevant. The gulf is growing wider. So don't project Cybertruck pricing based upon how much legacy auto charges and the fact that they lose money on every EV they sell. Tesla does not resemble them at all and this is evidenced many ways, probably the most clearly by comparing their respective financials. This should not be in doubt by anyone who has been paying attention, even a little bit.

I'm shocked that so many still don't understand this, and how impossible it is for legacy auto to unlearn what they already know. You would have better luck making water flow uphill.

Your response is well written and compelling.

I am not convinced that Tesla is as efficient as you are, but you could be 100% correct. If the price of the CT is closer to the Y than the X, it will be clear. I definitely agree that Tesla is more efficient. But is it enough to make the CT affordable? I know your answer! Still not sure about mine. A 150 kWh+ battery is very expensive.

 

[Knucklehead]

The Cybertruck was always Model Y priced. The Rivian has more screws in it and more colors than a Model X and they're supposed to be the same price as the full gigacast Cybertruck without paint and driver's display?

-Crissa

I hope you are correct.

 

[Throwcomputer]

To satisfy your question but not to even qualify as a possibility IMO, it all depends on FSD progress. If FSD with HW4 is still lagging it will come down to how it compares to my Lightning, but honestly I don't see this truck being anything but amazing, groundbreaking and will not (IMO) be priced beyond 10% of reveal day price.

This is all just conjecture but conjecture that works for the good of us all.

I think the FSD argument in favor of creating droves of buyers flocking to the CT is misleading because this belief comes from a like-minded group of purchasers that are inherently strongly interested in FSD (Tesla/CT fans).

Negative press and general commentary from the average American shows that most people really aren't interested in FSD. So the state of FSD progress plays very little into whether the CT will become widely desired outside of those who are already interested in the CT or are Tesla fans.

Out of everyone I know and have heard mention FSD, the only person I know who either speaks favorably of it, or shows any remote interest in it, is the one person I know whose had a Tesla for a decade. No one else I've ever talked to or heard talking about it shows the slightest interest in FSD. But I frequent this site, and all I hear is how awesome FSD Beta is, or how anticipated FSD is in general.

I'm not trashing FSD, I'm just saying you aren't going to get an accurate representation of the demand for FSD on this forum.

PS: I'm not asking for everyone to now provide me with their arguments of why FSD really will be a life changer and how all detractors in the world are flat wrong. I get it. My statement is just that there is a clear disconnect between what Tesla customers want, and what average joe wants right now.

 

[Coolbreeze704]

The first vehicles off the production line of all manufacturers are always sold at a loss and the first few thousand Cybertrucks will be no exception, even when costing out tooling and buildings over their expected lifespans. But as production starts humming along, like a well-oiled machine, profits will suddenly appear. And they will grow over time.

But I have to think you have been living under a rock if you are completely unaware of Tesla's huge lead in manufacturing efficiency. Tesla can make an EV more efficiently than any other automaker today. And the difference in cost of manufacturing of Tesla vs. Ford, GM and Stellantis is stark. They are not even in the same ballpark as Tesla when it comes to manufacturing efficiency.

This is evidenced by the fact that Tesla has higher profit margins on their EV's than legacy auto has on their ICE vehicles. Legacy auto even has to pay outside software developers to write the code their vehicles need to operate. Legacy auto buys almost every component that is not part of the engine, transmision or chassis (and even much of that they buy). Tesla is vertically integrated and has carefully crafted every step of the way to be more cost effective, they even make all their own seats which is unheard of today. Legacy auto has to spend billions on advertising just to try to hold onto the market share they have while Tesla grows their marketshare with no advertising expense. Because of all of these things (and more), Tesla has the most pricing power in the industry.

Tesla can sell a much better truck, for a lot less money, and actually make a good profit while legacy auto is crippled, they can only sell a lesser quality truck, with inferior specs, for a higher price and yet they still lose a ton of money. That's why I say the difference is stark.

Tesla is more efficient every step of the way, from sourcing parts and materials to delivering the vehicles (and all the manufacturing in between). I've been writing about this for over three years now, I'm surprised you haven't connected the dots. And the difference is not narrowing, as the mainstream media would have you believe with their ridiculous stories about how the competition is always right around the corner (for the last 6 years now). It was a false narrative 6 years ago and it's a false narrative now. But that doesn't stop them from recycling it over and over and sheeple people just lap it up because, of course, GM and Ford and Stellantis are mightier and more experienced than Tesla. Of course.

But here's the problem with that narrative: When a company has been on top so long, and processes throughout the organization are just refined, and never completely overhauled, well, technology keeps marching forward, and, before you know it, there are better ways to do things. And guess what is more difficult than learning a new way to do something? That's right, unlearning the old way. Legacy auto has heaps and heaps of processes they need to unlearn. These processes were useful at one time but now, with EV's being a completely different product, they are like a ball and chain on legacy organizations. These organizations don't even know how to unlearn them, it's a completely foreign concept to the corporate culture. Tesla employees routinely do things that would get them fired at a legacy automaker. And this is the source of Tesla's expanding lead when it comes to efficiency of manufacture and bringing value to buyers of new vehicles while still having some nice profit left over so they can re-invest it in themselves. In becoming bigger and more efficient.

Tesla's biggest competition is Tesla, they make and sell far more EV's in N. America than all the other manufacturers combined. And all the rest lose huge amounts of money on EV's because they literally cannot price them at the cost of manufacture. As Tesla continually ramps production and sales higher, the prices will have a long-term downtrend. But this is not a problem because the higher volumes and constant manufacturing innovation will cover this long-term price decline. This is what it looks like when Tesla is Tesla's biggest competition.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that the cost to produce a vehicle of a given specification is fixed, it depends upon how competent the maker is when it comes to efficiency. And Tesla is heads and shoulders above the rest when it comes to competency, so the price gulf of two cars with the same specs, one designed, built and sold by Tesla, and one designed and built by legacy auto and sold through their dealer networks will be huge, surprisingly huge. That's how big the gulf between Tesla and the rest really is.

Tesla has surgically removed the fat every step of the way and they are not done yet, either. The amount of fat in legacy auto is shockingly huge (and surprisingly hard to get rid of) and buyers of legacy vehicles pay for every last cent of it. Legacy auto no longer efficiently serves the needs of buyers of new vehicles in the manner that allowed them to rise to the top. That is why they will now fail. They cannot turn their sinking ships around quickly enough. At best, they will become a tiny shadow of their former selves, more likely they will go down in flames with huge debt. They have already failed; they just don't know it yet.

Mainstream media will constantly trot out story after story implying that Tesla is about to get run over by legacy auto. But these are flimsy stories based on nothing but misinformation and rank speculation that is supported by nothing that is relevant. The gulf is growing wider. So don't project Cybertruck pricing based upon how much legacy auto charges and the fact that they lose money on every EV they sell. Tesla does not resemble them at all and this is evidenced many ways, probably the most clearly by comparing their respective financials. This should not be in doubt by anyone who has been paying attention, even a little bit.

I'm shocked that so many still don't understand this, and how impossible it is for legacy auto to unlearn what they already know. You would have better luck making water flow uphill.

I think the FSD argument in favor of creating droves of buyers flocking to the CT is misleading because this belief comes from a like-minded group of purchasers that are inherently strongly interested in FSD (Tesla/CT fans).

Negative press and general commentary from the average American shows that most people really aren't interested in FSD. So the state of FSD progress plays very little into whether the CT will become widely desired outside of those who are already interested in the CT or are Tesla fans.

Out of everyone I know and have heard mention FSD, the only person I know who either speaks favorably of it, or shows any remote interest in it, is the one person I know whose had a Tesla for a decade. No one else I've ever talked to or heard talking about it shows the slightest interest in FSD. But I frequent this site, and all I hear is how awesome FSD Beta is, or how anticipated FSD is in general.

I'm not trashing FSD, I'm just saying you aren't going to get an accurate representation of the demand for FSD on this forum.

I agree. I do not think Tesla's are selling because consumers are hyped about FSD. It is merely my interest in it. What it will do for my life if it is realized.
When and if version 12 hits the stock will take off just on the implications for the robotaxi fleets and the disruption that will bring.
I also believe that is when you will see Tesla build many of its self driving robots (cars) for it own fleet. From that Optimus is the next great leap. This world is going to change quickly if and when V12 hits.

 

[rudedawg78]

There is no way I can see a much bigger battery and three motors costing less than the top of the line Model X.

So, you are one of the people who predict the first Cybertrucks produced will cost $100K+?

Considering the "top of the line Model X" currently sells for $133,990.

*sigh*

Prepare to be surprised...

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