More 500-mile range rumors!

[CyberGus]

not as surprising and people feeling they can't be surprised twice

Fool me twice, and I won't get fooled again

or, something

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[CyberGus]

Perhaps there would be less confusion if everyone was technically correct.

For reference, I'm responding to those talking about Tesla wanting to achieve energy density in their 4680 cells, and that greater cell density is needed to hit 500 mile range. This is completely incorrect. Tesla talking about cell density is simply talking about achieving satisfactory production quality for the 4680; essentially that it has the same density as their other more mature lines. There was never a goal of 4680 cells achieving greater density.

4680 packs and vehicles will achieve more kWh with less weight, not by having more energy stored in the lithium mixture in the cells, but through more efficient packaging. The larger cells have more content, less container. Like buying a gallon of juice instead of a bunch of juice boxes, and saving on packaging. It's not increasing density, but it is allowing more energy storage material to fit in the same vehicle footprint by removing material that has no value but adds cost. This concept seems to not be understood by most talking about "energy density".

Ultimately, this is how the Cybertruck will have longer range with less weight: not through greater density, but through reduced unnecessary materials.

Respectfully disagree. The 4680 was revealed as including silicon, which would give it much higher Wh/cell, but has not yet done so (as far as anyone knows).

In fact, most of Battery Day was around improving the cost of energy storage. Of course, if the cell capacity can be improved, the cost per Wh improves as well. These two goals have significant overlap.

 

[HaulingAss]

Maybe you are right about it coming out later but Tesla will not sell a lot of Cybertrucks that only get 300 miles on a full charge with no payload or towing and only at 65 mph in 65 degree temperatures and only on 60% available charge (20%-80% nominal). That doesn't move the needle in terms of BEV truck adoption.

Tesla will not sell a lot of 300+ mile Cybertrucks? Huh? The 300+ mile EPA range Cybertruck will be Tesla's best-selling configuration, due to lighter weight and more affordable purchase cost.

People want bang for their buck, most people (more than half) don't need to be hauling around well over a ton of expensive batteries everywhere they go, when it's a rare day they drive over 100 miles. Value matters more to the average truck buyer than whether they have an additional 150 miles of range they rare ly use (and if they did need it, a quick 15 minute rest break at a Supercharger would fix it).

I'm not financially contrained so I will probably get one with 300+ miles, to start with, and one with 500+ miles, when it's available.

My wife and I have been driving Model 3's for over 5 years and we both charge them as high as we need, up to 100% at home, and discharge them as low as necessary, whenever it's more convenient. On road trips I target 5%-10% SoC when I arrive at a Supercharger and charge to 100% on destination chargers, whenever possible. I don't know what this 20%-80% fake limitation is all about, you are leaving 40% of your range on the table when it sounds like you could actually use it! We still have over 300 miles of EPA range on all three of our 2018 Model 3's, it's not a problem to use all the range, when needed. None of them even have the octovalve or the heatpump for supeior range and battery thermal management. The newer Model 3's and Model Y's are even better!

The daily 20%-80% recommendation is only for when you won't benefit from a higher or lower state of charge, you don't want your battery sitting around at 100% SoC for hours or days! We have charge stations that charge at 48 amps, so it makes quick work of topping off to 100% before we leave on a long trip. And we can still get 300 miles in the real world, over 5 years later, even when it's 50 or 55 degrees outside. If it's 25 F outside, it drops to around 250 miles, still excellent. Our average road trip Supercharger stop is super short. Don't artificially limit yourself or worry-wart yourself to death over potential battery degradation, just drive the damn things and enjoy the heck out of how capable they are! Revel in their performance too!

My older brother drives a frickin' Nissan Leaf with about 60 miles total range, from 100% down to 0%. It sounds like you get range anxiety when your car drops as low as his Leaf charged to 100%, LOL!

 

[HaulingAss]

100% in northern BC I'm 600 km from the next town of similar size, south. there are none north or west, and 900 km east. in the winter, I need range.

That's the main need for x-long range EVs, remote areas like in Northern Canada, or even N. and S. Dakota. But look at a population map to see how few people live in areas that remote! Fortunately, as the Supercharger Network continues to get built out at record speed, and higher charging power options are added, the benefit of super long range EV's diminishes, and people would rather save money than pack excessive batteries into their overweight car just in case they go on a road trip to remote areas. Towing long distances is another niche use case where bigger batteries make sense.

 

[ricinro]

Tesla will not sell a lot of 300+ mile Cybertrucks? Huh? The 300+ mile EPA range Cybertruck will be Tesla's best-selling configuration, due to lighter weight and more affordable purchase cost.

People want bang for their buck, most people (more than half) don't need to be hauling around well over a ton of expensive batteries everywhere they go, when it's a rare day they drive over 100 miles. Value matters more to the average truck buyer than whether they have an additional 150 miles of range they rare ly use (and if they did need it, a quick 15 minute rest break at a Supercharger would fix it).

I'm not financially contrained so I will probably get one with 300+ miles, to start with, and one with 500+ miles, when it's available.

My wife and I have been driving Model 3's for over 5 years and we both charge them as high as we need, up to 100% at home, and discharge them as low as necessary, whenever it's more convenient. On road trips I target 5%-10% SoC when I arrive at a Supercharger and charge to 100% on destination chargers, whenever possible. I don't know what this 20%-80% fake limitation is all about, you are leaving 40% of your range on the table when it sounds like you could actually use it! We still have over 300 miles of EPA range on all three of our 2018 Model 3's, it's not a problem to use all the range, when needed. None of them even have the octovalve or the heatpump for supeior range and battery thermal management. The newer Model 3's and Model Y's are even better!

The daily 20%-80% recommendation is only for when you won't benefit from a higher or lower state of charge, you don't want your battery sitting around at 100% SoC for hours or days! We have charge stations that charge at 48 amps, so it makes quick work of topping off to 100% before we leave on a long trip. And we can still get 300 miles in the real world, over 5 years later, even when it's 50 or 55 degrees outside. If it's 25 F outside, it drops to around 250 miles, still excellent. Our average road trip Supercharger stop is super short. Don't artificially limit yourself or worry-wart yourself to death over potential battery degradation, just drive the damn things and enjoy the heck out of how capable they are! Revel in their performance too!

My older brother drives a frickin' Nissan Leaf with about 60 miles total range, from 100% down to 0%. It sounds like you get range anxiety when your car drops as low as his Leaf charged to 100%, LOL!

Tesla trailers with built in battery storage. Available for purchase or renting. A practical solution for the occasional weekend warrior.

 

[Coolbreeze704]

Tesla trailers with built in battery storage. Available for purchase or renting. A practical solution for the occasional weekend warrior.

Then have Nio style swap stations to pull in on your trip and let them change out the power wall style battery in your bed while you charge the standard battery and grab a bite to eat and then on you go.

 

[CHC]

The reported no. 1 reason people are hesitant to switch to EVs (especially truck owners) is range anxiety. 500 miles is a number that silences any EV skeptic. 300 is not.

The argument that 300 is 'just enough' range is so dumb. The whole point of the CT is to compete against legacy truck manufacturers and beat the ICE F150 in every possible category. You guys keep saying "no one drives that far at one time", "no one tows that often", the members of this forum are clearly biased, non-ev skeptics, who don't own a truck or do truck things.

If you told an average joe truck owner that the new Tesla truck gets a max of 300 miles, that dips to 180 miles when you tow, they would laugh in your face and say "that's why I'll never buy an EV, my ford gets 500 miles on a single tank"

 

[SSonnentag]

After 10% battery degradation in the first 5 years, and likely an additional 10% over the next 5 years, along with never routinely using the top 10% of the battery or the bottom 10%, it is wise to get a battery pack with a minimum of 40% more range when new than you require on a regular basis, and that's for warm weather travelling.

My 2017 S 100D had an original range of 335 miles. Now it has a range of 297 miles and just barely has enough range for me to get home from work each weekend. It's only 190 miles, but it's all uphill, gaining 6,000 feet of elevation. In another year or two I'll be forced to stop at a supercharger to add a bit of juice in order to make the trip (or drive 10 mph slower. Yeah, right! Nope, I'll be charging.)

Anyway, go big or slow home.

 

[HaulingAss]

Tesla trailers with built in battery storage. Available for purchase or renting. A practical solution for the occasional weekend warrior.

It's generally uneconomical to tow large loads long distances with trucks smaller than semi's. It's not a mainstream business activity due to it's high cost of time and money and limited return on investment. This is true whether it's gas or diesel, even though diesel does have a bit of a cost advantage over long distances.

I'm not sure trailers with big batteries and motors are a mainstream solution either, in part due to the high cost but mostly because towing long distances is not a mainstream activity. Towing is a small niche and I get it that some people right here want to do eactly that, but being more vocal about it doesn't make it a mainstream activity. Tesla barely has 3-4% of the new light vehicle market in N. America so they have a lot of growth ahead of them without needing to address niche market needs.

That's why Tesla is building a factory to make thousands of EV semi-trucks, that meets a market need that is 24/7 and creates a huge amount of the pollution due to transportation. People that tow travel trailers long distances tend to leave the trailer parked for months at a time. It makes little sense to put batteries in such an RV, only to have it sit around most of the time. Semi-trucks are always moving and will be a priority for the mission.

 

[HaulingAss]

The reported no. 1 reason people are hesitant to switch to EVs (especially truck owners) is range anxiety. 500 miles is a number that silences any EV skeptic. 300 is not.

The argument that 300 is 'just enough' range is so dumb. The whole point of the CT is to compete against legacy truck manufacturers and beat the ICE F150 in every possible category. You guys keep saying "no one drives that far at one time", "no one tows that often", the members of this forum are clearly biased, non-ev skeptics, who don't own a truck or do truck things.

If you told an average joe truck owner that the new Tesla truck gets a max of 300 miles, that dips to 180 miles when you tow, they would laugh in your face and say "that's why I'll never buy an EV, my ford gets 500 miles on a single tank"

Oh, no, there will be a 500+ mile version of the Cybertruck, I'm just saying it won't be the most popular version and it probably won't be the first release version.

That's all. I will buy one when it comes out but that doesn't mean a 300+ mile Cybertruck is not awesome for most people.

 

[HaulingAss]

After 10% battery degradation in the first 5 years, and likely an additional 10% over the next 5 years, along with never routinely using the top 10% of the battery or the bottom 10%, it is wise to get a battery pack with a minimum of 40% more range when new than you require on a regular basis, and that's for warm weather travelling.

My 2017 S 100D had an original range of 335 miles. Now it has a range of 297 miles and just barely has enough range for me to get home from work each weekend. It's only 190 miles, but it's all uphill, gaining 6,000 feet of elevation. In another year or two I'll be forced to stop at a supercharger to add a bit of juice in order to make the trip (or drive 10 mph slower. Yeah, right! Nope, I'll be charging.)

Anyway, go big or slow home.

Yeah, well the Model X was always quite the whale or the pig. It was developed a little too early to have the technical sophistication of the Model 3 and especially not the Model Y (falcon wing doors don't count, IMO) and it was overweight, over-priced and awkward (for a Tesla). Fat and porky, even if it did have a spacious interior. Not much of an open road car, more of a big chariot for soccer moms with big families. The fact that it was released so late just made it seem more outdated relative to the Model 3.

 

[HaulingAss]

Was the quad motor “announced”, or just possible? Was it in a tweet, or a press release or something like that? I haven’t done a great deal of homework on a quad. I know originally at the reveal they mentioned a tri with a 500+ mile range.

I recall the quad-motor was announced in a tweet by Elon (after the official reveal). Not as a possibility, I don't think, but as an actual trim. I'm expecting the quad motor to maybe replace the tri-motor and come in two battery sizes.

 

[ricinro]

It's generally uneconomical to tow large loads long distances with trucks smaller than semi's. It's not a mainstream business activity due to it's high cost of time and money and limited return on investment. This is true whether it's gas or diesel, even though diesel does have a bit of a cost advantage over long distances.

I'm not sure trailers with big batteries and motors are a mainstream solution either, in part due to the high cost but mostly because towing long distances is not a mainstream activity. Towing is a small niche and I get it that some people right here want to do eactly that, but being more vocal about it doesn't make it a mainstream activity. Tesla barely has 3-4% of the new light vehicle market in N. America so they have a lot of growth ahead of them without needing to address niche market needs.

That's why Tesla is building a factory to make thousands of EV semi-trucks, that meets a market need that is 24/7 and creates a huge amount of the pollution due to transportation. People that tow travel trailers long distances tend to leave the trailer parked for months at a time. It makes little sense to put batteries in such an RV, only to have it sit around most of the time. Semi-trucks are always moving and will be a priority for the mission.

There is a lot of toy hauling and here in AZ. I am not sure where they go, the Rim? Glamis? but they are out somewhere in the vast west. It could be nice to have enough power to compensate for the extra drag/rolling resistance so that the CT could calculate range and Supercharging without forcing people to do mental calculations. If Tesla designed the trailer if could be configured many ways but aerodynamic and plug-n-play (rear cameras? auto backing..) and even as a live-in camper.

 

[SSonnentag]

Yeah, well the Model X was always quite the whale or the pig. It was developed a little too early to have the technical sophistication of the Model 3 and especially not the Model Y (falcon wing doors don't count, IMO) and it was overweight, over-priced and awkward (for a Tesla). Fat and porky, even if it did have a spacious interior. Not much of an open road car, more of a big chariot for soccer moms with big families. The fact that it was released so late just made it seem more outdated relative to the Model 3.

I drive an S.

But other than the shape of the body and the falcon wing doors, an X is nothing more than a tall S. Same goes for the 3 and Y.

 

[HaulingAss]

I drive an S.

But other than the shape of the body and the falcon wing doors, an X is nothing more than a tall S. Same goes for the 3 and Y.

Yeah, I don't know why I missed that. They were both aging platforms by 2017, I think the updated versions have embedded better technology, longer ranges and better battery thermal management systems to manage the batteries. Constant improvement driven by the flood of data always streaming into the mothership. The 2170 batteries are superior to the 18650's. Do they still use the 18650's in the S&X?

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