Would you be willing to give up 4" of headroom for more range?

[Crissa]

One of the things rumored about the original Cybertruck design is that it would have a double-layer battery in the long-range configuration.

That's become more clear that it really was part of the original design, since they're missing the target by almost half!

So, where would you put it?

Changing the frontal size would reduce the range as well, so... Would you be willing to give up head room to stick that pack under the seats?

Let's get some ideas.

-Crissa

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[Jhodgesatmb]

One of the things said about the original Cybertruck design is that it would have a double-layer battery in the
R configuration.

That's become more clear that it really was part of the original design, since they're missing the target by almost half!

So, where would you put it?

Changing the frontal size would reduce the range as well, so... Would you be willing to give up head room to stick that pack under the seats?

Let's get some ideas.

-Crissa

It would require a new design and a new phase for manufacturing … in the end it might be more worthwhile to hope for improvements in the battery.

 

[scottyah]

Absolutely not, if I could increase the backseat headroom I would.

 

[ÆCIII]

I believe Tesla looked at the big picture re-examining data for the driving population at large and realized that 500 miles of range would be used regularly by a very small percentage of people, or by the average driver for a very small percentage of the time. This is also what Sandy and Lars were emphasizing during recent reviews.

This also implicates three other factors as well. One and two, the longer range battery pack built in would be heavier with reduced efficiency and costing more electricity per mile, as well as reduced performance with the extra weight. The extra weight doesn't empty like a car or rocket burning fuel either, so these efficiency and performance reductions are constant during all driving regardless of charge. Three, the increased numbers of cells used in a longer range battery built in, directly affect how Tesla will be able to scale the Cybertruck in mass production before battery supplies would possibly become a constraint. Lars and Franz also mentioned this in discussions with Sandy.

For these reasons I think Tesla made a tough decision to design the Cybertruck with more 'realistic' range, with benefits of added efficiency and performance, while also offering the Range Extender for the heavy towing or long range use cases. It still won't please everyone, but nothing ever will. What I like about the Range Extender is it's a choice, which also (hopefully) can be removed if not needed for an extended period of time.

But, I think if and when the energy density per battery cell weight and cost improves enough, then that will be a game changer for more practical mass scaling of longer range packs. The problem now is it's vaguely like the rocket equation where a significantly larger battery or fuel store really degrades performance with extra weight, until the fuel is used some in the case of rockets, but in EVs the weight remains so in a way it's a more difficult efficiency decision manufacturing EVs at scale. With larger EV batteries, the weight is always hauled around. These same considerations are also limiting electric aircraft making them expensive with short range.

But to the point, if we suddenly had a battery cell that was half the weight but same volume per energy density, then I think the double height battery would be an awesome idea. I probably wouldn't miss the headroom too much at all. If headroom was still a concern, Tesla could maybe design the Cybertruck with a slightly steeper windshield and flat top before the tapered vault sides to keep headroom, without very much increased drag. In a way it's not much different than someone just raising the air-suspension a little higher.

I could probably summarize the above five paragraphs with, "Battery technology is a limiting factor." But it wouldn't cover the reasons and besides I have to keep up with @JBee some every once in a while.

- ÆCIII

 

[Regenshire]

Headroom and space in the cabin is more important to my use cases then adding additional range. And that is not all we would give up, we would also have to pay more per mile to drive due to the additional weight, and I assume more for the vehicle since batteries are the most expensive component.

I think 500 mile range is very useful for towing, but sacrificing comfort for that is not something I would be that interested in personally since I don't plan to do long distance recreational towing.

 

[Chris9702L]

How about losing 2” of headroom and have 2” more underneath to get the extra 4 inches. I could care less how much I could raise the suspension.

Headroom and space in the cabin is more important to my use cases then adding additional range. And that is not all we would give up, we would also have to pay more per mile to drive due to the additional weight, and I assume more for the vehicle since batteries are the most expensive component.

I think 500 mile range is very useful for towing, but sacrificing comfort for that is not something I would be that interested in personally since I don't plan to do long distance recreational towing.

This doesn’t make sense. They’ve said repeatedly that a high percentage of people only use there car/trucks for 50 miles per day. So most are paying more per mile because they are lugging around the extra 250+ miles of batteries. ?‍
And long distance towing is one mark of a “truck”. They absolutely missed the mark on range. It should have had at least 400 miles of range. This could have been easily done by having more battery in the under bed storage area (the truck has plenty of storage in the vault, frunk, and under the seats).

 

[Rutrow]

Depends…. Which part of my head are you taking the 4 inches from?!? ?‍?

 

[Johnelrod12]

I’m 6’6 and Serena Williams husband Alex is 6’5 and he didn’t really have that much head room. I definitely wouldn’t buy it if they took up anymore space. I can’t even test drive one before I buy it and it’s pissing me off.

 

[Crissa]

It would require a new design and a new phase for manufacturing … in the end it might be more worthwhile to hope for improvements in the battery.

Irrelevant to the question, tho, since you need to know if you want a thing before you do the engineering.

This is what Lucid did to reach their range targets.

I’m 6’6 and Serena Williams husband Alex is 6’5 and he didn’t really have that much head room. I definitely wouldn’t buy it if they took up anymore space.

Oh! Right, which photo was that?

Wasn't that in the back seat?

How about losing 2” of headroom and have 2” more underneath to get the extra 4 inches. I could care less how much I could raise the suspension.

You'd lose aero and max ride height with that plan, hence not adding it to the question. And if you could care less, then you clearly care some.

I chose to not change the aero envelope in this question, because this would add almost entirely only cell weight to the truck, and would be a simple trade off to make. Comfort vs Range.

And it'll be a data point to think about in the future.

-Crissa

 

[SparkChaser]

One of the things said about the original Cybertruck design is that it would have a double-layer battery in the
R configuration.

That's become more clear that it really was part of the original design, since they're missing the target by almost half!

So, where would you put it?

Changing the frontal size would reduce the range as well, so... Would you be willing to give up head room to stick that pack under the seats?

Let's get some ideas.

-Crissa

How about adding humps under the front and rear seats?
Not very clean but possible, but no reduction in head room.
since I’m only 5’10” tall I hope head room will be abundant. So I might give up a bit, I will not know till I have my butt in the seat.
for most part I am ok with the range. As SCs multiply it will only get easier.
I wonder what the range increase would be for a full bed single layer slide in and out range extender would provide. For that 2-5 time a year long trip having this as a rental option for towing might be a solution. The increase in weight vs increase in rage has to balance out at some sweet spot.

 

[Fleetwood75]

I can't possibly answer this until I get to sit in one

With that being said, I'd take an extra 2 feet of length in the bed (thereby making the truck 2 feet longer) to get more battery. And that wouldn't add to the frontal area at all so it should have minimal effect on aerodynamics. Give us a Cybertruck XL like this:

 

[Crissa]

I can't possibly answer this until I get to sit in one

With that being said, I'd take an extra 2 feet of length in the bed (thereby making the truck 2 feet longer) to get more battery. And that wouldn't add to the frontal area at all so it should have minimal effect on aerodynamics. Give us a Cybertruck XL like this:

None of the battery seems to be under the bed, currently. You have the motor and hardware at and in front of the rear axle, then the tonneau storage.

But that is a valid direction to take it, although it would really reduce the maneuverability of the truck at that point. Big bed trucks have gotten so rare. How much does that overlap with the Semi used as a platform, I wonder?

EVs are simpler, their capabilities are less fiddly, so it goes that their model line will be simpler.

-Crissa

 

[Scott Beall]

No but I'd give up 4" of ground clearance if you added a stack on the bottom.

13" of clearance is plenty for me to get over speed bumps. That and driving across the lawn to drop a bag of mulch is as rugged as I get. Probably par for the course for Grand Cherokee drivers.

 

[Fleetwood75]

None of the battery seems to be under the bed, currently. You have the motor and hardware at and in front of the rear axle, then the tonneau storage.

But that is a valid direction to take it, although it would really reduce the maneuverability of the truck at that point. Big bed trucks have gotten so rare. How much does that overlap with the Semi used as a platform, I wonder?

EVs are simpler, their capabilities are less fiddly, so it goes that their model line will be simpler.

-Crissa

Allow the rear wheels to turn at a larger angle than they currently can. Let them turn as much as the front wheels do and now you're still pretty darn maneuverable. You also have room for 2 more feet of battery pack which adds up to quite a few kWh I'm sure.

I don't see much overlap with the Semi because as an ordinary driver I have no use for a semi truck, but I could make plenty of use of an 8 foot bed. In my mind the only thing you're giving up here is the ability to park it in a garage, something that most truck owners don't do anyway.

 

[anionic1]

2" lower and 2" up in the cab. ok so the max clearance is only 15"+ now. so what. How many of us ever go bouldering. The spare battery in the bed is just dumb. You really don't have a truck anymore at that point. The bed makes the truck. Unless I missed something in school.

Can you imagine if they made that double pack for the entire size of the current pack. You would have a 600 mi truck. 300 hauling a trailer. Now that's a truck. Their competitors are and are going to do that. I think Tesla will end up doing it. Especially as battery cost drop.

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