Help. Why not the Rivian?

[BayouCityBob]

It seems to be very personal. My wife loved driving the R1S and found the seats no issue. I am really hoping this is addressed in the Mid-cycle refresh on the R1 coming in second quarter (when they do the plant shutdown). For me personally, it looks like this summer will be the next episode in my quest to find an alternative to my 2018 Model 3. I thought for sure it would be the CT (after a couple of other aborted starts) but alas no. So this time I am thinking Silverado EV or refreshed R1T.

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[Woodrick]

It seems to be very personal. My wife loved driving the R1S and found the seats no issue. I am really hoping this is addressed in the Mid-cycle refresh on the R1 coming in second quarter (when they do the plant shutdown). For me personally, it looks like this summer will be the next episode in my quest to find an alternative to my 2018 Model 3. I thought for sure it would be the CT (after a couple of other aborted starts) but alas no. So this time I am thinking Silverado EV or refreshed R1T.

If you haven't made a reservation for a Silverado, I hope that you won't be able to get one for awhile. It would be sad to think that you could get a reservation today and a Silverado by end of year. It's not as if they are going to have huge production capacity.

Of course if they end up being $150-$200k+, you may be able to get one earlier.

I hope the Silverado luck, but GM hasn't been that EV friendly lately.

 

[Skydog]

It seems to be very personal. My wife loved driving the R1S and found the seats no issue. I am really hoping this is addressed in the Mid-cycle refresh on the R1 coming in second quarter (when they do the plant shutdown). For me personally, it looks like this summer will be the next episode in my quest to find an alternative to my 2018 Model 3. I thought for sure it would be the CT (after a couple of other aborted starts) but alas no. So this time I am thinking Silverado EV or refreshed R1T.

When is the R1T refresh coming? Any news on what they are changing?
Thanks

 

[Huntsman]

I’m an early reservation holder, around 50k. Live in Connecticut so nowhere close to CA or TX. I’ve been a happy waiter, like so many. Have a model Y, have a couple power walls and a solar array. So I get it, mostly.

And I watch these threads closely. But with low range expectations and our needs, I’m struggling to justify the cost and tradeoffs of the CT. ?

As big skiers, we drive to Vermont most weekends all winter. 180 miles each way. Temps can can be low, 5 degrees not uncommon, and 10 below some mornings is not uncommon. And a lot of weekends, we are plunging far deeper to remote parts of Vermont for ski races. Elevation change from about 500 ft to 2,200 for most trips.

We’ve got a garage and home charger at both ends of trip.

Charging infrastructure in VT (and CT too) is really quite limited at this point. If you’re happy with slow crowded charging stations (if working) that a few generous ski hills have put up, I suppose things are workable. But barely.

So really, range and infrastructure is a huge issue for me. 400 to 500 miles as promised was keeping me on list and prevented me from going another way. I really do feel misled, like so many.

I’ve read all about pending revised 4680 chemistry and perhaps 10% to 20% longer range coming soon.
But jeez, if my order comes up (maybe any day now) I’m really debating taking a pass and pulling trigger on Rivian.

Out of Spec tests have everyone’s attention, and while not perfect, what else do we have to go on?

facts:

250 miles for CT, 290 for Rivian.

135kWh pack in R1T vs 120kWh pack in CT

2.2 miles/kwh R1T DM AT tires (34”)
Vs
2.0 miles/kwh CT AT tires (35”)


What am I missing?

In just over 24 hours your simple question, why not Rivian, has generated 8 pages. I think you might be onto something. I’m asking myself the same question, over and over questioning this 4 year allegiance to our cult leader.
Something that causes me to pause is reading on the internet it seems former Tesla owners that went to Rivian, many have come back or expressed the green grass over there is not completely all it appears.
While I dont suggest you delve into a Rivian forum for four years, hanging out here might be part of the problem. We have 4 years of hope and speculation and one month of … one or two owners perspectives. If the bottom line is range, Rivian wins. I suspect that is not however the end all criteria less we would all be ordering R1T’s.

 

[scottf200]

Had a ski trip last week, about 110 miles one way. Owns a R1s, MY LR, and a Mach-E CR1, with R1S having a 20% (yes 20%) actual range over the other two. Taking the R1s was a no brainer for the purpose of completing the round trip without a charging stop. So if you need range and worry about charging, go for range - it's not a feature that can be compromised.

Sad thing though I still had to stop to charge my R1s, due to 1% vampire drain per day and a over conservative trip planner.

When is the R1T refresh coming? Any news on what they are changing?
Thanks

I know they just did their own dual motors and thought the refresh may be adding NACS built in (vs adapter) but there are rumors:

 

[BayouCityBob]

If you haven't made a reservation for a Silverado, I hope that you won't be able to get one for awhile. It would be sad to think that you could get a reservation today and a Silverado by end of year. It's not as if they are going to have huge production capacity.

Of course if they end up being $150-$200k+, you may be able to get one earlier.

I hope the Silverado luck, but GM hasn't been that EV friendly lately.

I have a day 1 reservation during the 12 minutes before they "sold out." Have been on the list for just over two years, so I should be in line to get a Launch Edition RST as soon as it is released (in Spring 2023 lol).

 

[Tinker71]

This is incorrect, you don't need a garage. As already pointed out, if you charge before you depart, the battery is not cold. Here's how I charge my primary ski car every winter. There is no garage:

No, that's not a minivan, not even a Model Y, it's the best ski car I've had the pleasure of using, a Performance Model 3:

It's low center of gravity and excellent traction and stability controls make it drive like a slotcar in the snow and ice. And the powerful heater comes on instantly with no need to heat up the engine block first. People who say Teslas "struggle" in the winter have never driven a Tesla in the winter. Gas cars struggle in winter, not electrics. Why don't gas cars have traction control as fast and precise as electric cars have? This thing rips on snow and ice! When was the last cold winter morning when you heard a Tesla owner say, "Can I get a ride, my car won't start"?

The Tesla Wall Connector is all-weather rated, all it needs is a bare post, but in colder and snowier climates it always nicer to keep the charging handle out of the snow and ice with a roof over the pedestal. The future of automotive is to have Level 2 charging in parking spots, at work, at home and wherever cars park for hours at a time, big batteries will become wasteful and old-fashioned.

When I lived in Montana, before people had access to practical electric cars, I saw parking lots with pedestals and 120 V outlets for block heaters. Nobody said "What about people who live in apartments without garages? No, people installed pedestals with 120V power in the apartment parking lots. Otherwise, the cars wouldn't start on cold mornings. Now, we have lame people claiming apartment dwellers can't drive electric cars because they don't have a gargae to charge in. It's a fake or misinformed argument. It's actually pretty easy to install conduit and pedestals, it's better than having gas stations on every corner. Fast chargers are only needed for quick top-ups on long drives.

No, electric cars do not struggle in winter, they excel. Gas and diesel cars struggle in winter, they take too long to heat up and noxious emissions that kill and sicken people quadruple in cold weather.

WOW did not read all that but the cabin at 50 degrees is easier to heat than one at 15 f. It is not just the battery. I agree mY m3 do great in the snow until you break the plastic off on chunks of ice.

 

[Crissa]

Again, where they are at vs. Tesla. Tesla has free cash flow. Rivian. -1.5 bil per q median.

Tesla took 17 years to be profitable.

Rivian was founded in 2009. That means they have three more years of negative profits before they're behind Tesla on that count.

I'm confused. Neither the Rivian or the Cybertruck would be a good choice for a 360-mile round trip ski weekend if you don't have reliable charging where you stay or on the hill.

In a decade there will chargers everywhere although congestion might be a problem...

...Won't they just be at all the locations, though? Seems silly not to have powered parking at that point.

I'd just say, 'choose a place you can charge at'. Because you can just do that.

-Crissa

 

[Outdoors]

Tesla took 17 years to be profitable.

Rivian was founded in 2009. That means they have three more years of negative profits before they're behind Tesla on that count.

-Crissa

It's not a race. It's who is more flexible, and whose product I want to own. Who cares who got there first or faster?

 

[Crissa]

It's not a race. It's who is more flexible, and whose product I want to own. Who cares who got there first or faster?

Well, you're the one making the claim that it's notable that Rivian is still unprofitable. So I countered with a direct comparison.

-Crissa

 

[Techy Golfer]

I can configure an R1S or take delivery of a shop R1S at any point but instead I chose to configure the CT last week.

I was super close to submitting an order multiple times, and if delivery would have been pushed back any further I would have gone Rivian.

Tesla wins on the tech side IMO, but Rivian’s build quality is amazing (at least compared to my 2018 RWD 3). The SC network, giving Rivian time to get to profitability and continue to work through their own issues is what ultimately held me off from jumping ship.

 

[Outdoors]

Well, you're the one making the claim that it's notable that Rivian is still unprofitable. So I countered with a direct comparison.

-Crissa

You're assuming they make it.

Did one happen to read the words product or engineering flexibility. So thanks for proving my point. Are you an accountant?

I wouldn't want to own a product from a company that has to bet the farm each and every time it launches and is borderline bankrupt and loses a billion and a half per quarter. God only knows how much per truck.

Okay RJ. We need to buy the special type of widget that does whatever we want to do. Can we do it cheaper says RJ? Yes, let's go to the cheaper route but it won't provide us better outcome. Product will still meet specifications, yes. Not as optimal but it'll still work.

I just look at the cyber truck and think that they took less of those types of decisions compared to Rivian.



But good job on your comparison.

 

[Crissa]

You're assuming they make it.

No, I'm just pointing out that at 14 years, Tesla was struggling to get their Model 3 out the door. It was 2017, and they were definitely struggling. They had the Model S and X, but profitability still eluded them.

So saying 'Oh no, Rivian is struggling!' is no different than saying 'Oh no, Tesla is struggling!'.

Rivian's success or failure is not at this point, guaranteed either way. But their unprofitability? Well, that's not unusual.

-Crissa

 

[Outdoors]

No, I'm just pointing out that at 14 years, Tesla was struggling to get their Model 3 out the door. It was 2017, and they were definitely struggling. They had the Model S and X, but profitability still eluded them.

So saying 'Oh no, Rivian is struggling!' is no different than saying 'Oh no, Tesla is struggling!'.

Rivian's success or failure is not at this point, guaranteed either way. But their unprofitability? Well, that's not unusual.

-Crissa

But the point of this thread is why not Rivian.

 

[Woodrick]

But the point of this thread is why not Rivian.

The real answer is whatever floats your boat.
For everything that you find is great on one, you'll find a great on the other. Same for the bad things.

Rivians are a lot more here and now, even used. Cybertrucks still aren't really here.

I'd also add, what's your use case. Rivian, by far is what I'd Gentleman's or Gentlewoman's truck. Nice, clean, conventional with lots of technology.

The Cybertruck? well, it's pretty dang hard to classify. And that's what has a lot of people enamored with it.

Which carries more is irrelevant if you don't carry much.
Which has FSD is irrelevant if you don't buy, nor use it.

But, most importantly. Ask the question in a Cybertruck forum and it is pretty obvious what the answer will be.

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