⚡️ PowerShare Install, Specs, Details confirmed! No load shifting (for now)

[tripzero]

What are the odds they install before delivery? I have no wall charger so I'm curious if I should plan to super charge until they install.


It's a shame if the gateway doesn't support load shaving without the powerwall.

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[Woodrick]

What are the odds they install before delivery? I have no wall charger so I'm curious if I should plan to super charge until they install.


It's a shame if the gateway doesn't support load shaving without the powerwall.

I wouldn't bet on it. You can always charge on a 120V 15A standard plug, albeit slowly.

 

[tripzero]

I wouldn't bet on it. You can always charge on a 120V 15A standard plug, albeit slowly.

Oh, I didn't think it came with a level 1 charger or would I pick one up separately? Is there a way to limit charging power? The nearest plug has a lot of stuff on it already and I don't want to pop any breakers.

 

[mbrockus]

My system will be installed before my truck arrives. I was really hoping the truck delivery and install would be fairly close together but..... NO

 

[Woodrick]

Oh, I didn't think it came with a level 1 charger or would I pick one up separately? Is there a way to limit charging power? The nearest plug has a lot of stuff on it already and I don't want to pop any breakers.

The Tesla Mobile Connector allows for a variety of adapters.
I'm pretty sure that the included Powershare Mobile Adapter (AFAIK the same as the regular one Mobile Connector (tesla.com) ) has both the NEMA 14-50 and NEMA 5-15 adapters.
You can get a variety of adapters in the adapter kit NEMA Adapter Bundle (tesla.com)

The adapter kit page has example charging speeds, the Cybertruck will be only get about 2/3 of that of the Model Y.

The correct adapter tells the Cybertruck the correct current to charge at (80% of the rated circuit) and shouldn't cause a breaker to trip, unless there is something else on the same circuit.

You can also roll the charging current down in the vehicle. The vehicle will remember it for the location.

 

[nico007]

First of all. Thanks for all the amazing informed posts. Really impressed by all the knowledge from everyone.
just got my Cybertruck beast and waiting to be contacted.
my setup is the main panel is close to where the truck will charge and I have Tesla solar on a sub panel.
From what I read in all the posts it seems that solar is not going to do anything unless you have powerwall.
My question if this is the case is why would Tesla ask if we have solar when filling out the survey for eligibility?
Thank you.

 

[RollingRefrigerator]

My question if this is the case is why would Tesla ask if we have solar when filling out the survey for eligibility?

My bet is they want to let you know you're way better off spending more on a PW than be disappointed with the install costs and limited functionality provided by the 3V gateway that's included with FS. Better for them, and in my opinion they would be right. It's silliness to pay $3-7k install costs and not even get load shifting and solar usage during grid outages.

 

[Crissa]

It's a shame if the gateway doesn't support load shaving without the powerwall.

There's no way for it to do so. That's what a Powerwall does.

-Crissa

 

[RollingRefrigerator]

There's no way for it to do so. That's what a Powerwall does.

-Crissa

There's totally a way for it to do so, just like the powerwalls do. They just operate in grid following mode using the grid as reference, and supplement (or completely cover) the grid power going to your home. Tesla is just not implementing it, maybe due to hardware/software shortcoming but more likely to avoid complicating permitting for PS. Using PS or any other battery system while the grid is active requires the utility to approve a Permission to Operate.

It would also result in many CT owners cycling their batteries much more than just driving and backup alone would, so Tesla is probably also worried about battery warranty liabilities.

With the equivalent of 9 PWs, if load shifting and grid forming (to enable usage of solar while off grid) were implemented, the CT would be worth the cost SOLELY for powershare alone. (Although the 11.5 kW output limit wouldn't compare to the 9x PWs.)

As it is its a useful feature, nothing more. But on the flip side, they didn't undermine their own PW product.

 

[Crissa]

There's totally a way for it to do so, just like the powerwalls do. They just operate in grid following mode using the grid as reference, and supplement (or completely cover) the grid power going to your home. Tesla is just not implementing it, maybe...

No. You're describing something that uses different additional sensors and electronics not present in the Gateway.

The AC power generated is from the truck, the Gateway just transforms it down to 120v. It has a fancy breaker and relay, but it doesn't actually invert the power, or measure the waveform of grid power.

Basically, it's a fancy relay and transformer. It's not an inverter, as far as I know, and couldn't change the amount of power coming from the truck, or split it with anything.

-Crissa

 

[RollingRefrigerator]

The AC power generated is from the truck, the Gateway just transforms it down to 120v. It has a fancy breaker and relay, but it doesn't actually invert the power, or measure the waveform of grid power.

Basically, it's a fancy relay and transformer. It's not an inverter, as far as I know, and couldn't change the amount of power coming from the truck, or split it with anything.

A couple of things:
1. An inverter is just another name for a DC to AC converter. The CT does this with a 240v 11.5 kW inverter onboard in the battery penthouse.
2. From what I've read, the 3V is similar to previous V2 and V1 gateways, it just also had the grid forming components onboard. For V2, that's not necessary because PW does the grid forming.
3. Actually the 3V doesn't drop the voltage from 240 to 120, your house still needs the full 240. What it does is neutral balancing, since there is actuality no neutral coming out of (or in to) the truck - the truck just does pos and neg (red/black hot) with no neutral ref.

My point is the hardware required is there in a PS install to do load shifting as well as offline solar (just use the 3V for grid forming), they just did not implement it.

As am aside, I would be willing to bet the next gen PWs do NOT include grid forming and they just use the 3V for all future installs. In my case I have 3 powerwalls which all have that hardware even though only one is needed. Cheaper to just put it in the gateway, which they did in 3V.

 

[Crissa]

My point is the hardware required is there in a PS install to do load shifting as well as offline solar (just use the 3V for grid forming), they just did not implement it.

No, your point is not. You need an inverter to be directly connected to the grid (or lead power source) to do wave form matching.

-Crissa

 

[RollingRefrigerator]

No, your point is not. You need an inverter to be directly connected to the grid (or lead power source) to do wave form matching.

-Crissa

Umm... what? Ok I see where this is going, and I'm not sure why every thread on this board eventually turns into this, but I decline. So I'm signing off this thread!

But I do recommend for anyone interested to do a couple quick Google searches for grid forming vs grid following inverters and how solar plus battery backup systems including PW operate. Plenty of good info out there.

 

[Crissa]

...And you'll find inverters that are grid-tied need to be connected directly to the grid.

I don't understand what you thinking the problem is here. This isn't what the Gateway does for Powerwall, nor the truck.

-Crissa

 

[Woodrick]

No, your point is not. You need an inverter to be directly connected to the grid (or lead power source) to do wave form matching.

-Crissa

What many people miss is that there are very specific requirements for grid intertie systems.
Waveform matching is indeed the requirement, but the need for it goes over the head of many.

The reality is that there are basically two options, you are connected to the grid, or you are disconnect from the grid.
The difference being a relay that disconnects your house (or particular loads) from the grid.

With grid-intertie, there is no relay.

That's pretty simple, so what's the issue?

When you are grid-intertie, your inverters must match the frequency/waveform of the oncoming power. If they don't, that can be like hooking up two 12V batteries + to - and - to +. Simply put, sparks fly! And AC power changes polarity 120 times per second,.
So that's not that hard to do, but to do so, like @Crissa indicated, you have to be able to look at the incoming voltage to be able to match it.

Grid-Intertie allows you to offset your power bill or even sell power back to the utility.

But, when you lose power, a grid-intertie must turn off. That's right, all that solar on your roof is not doing anything.

So how can you get power back on in the house, you have to disconnect it from the grid, hence the big relay that's installed. That's a common configuration for generators and battery backup systems.


The goal of "vehicle to home" is power failure. It's implemented with a relay that disconnects all or part of the house from the grid and then turns the vehicle inverters on. It is not built to be a grid-intertie.

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