🥊 Them's fighting words! Ford's Farley disses Cybertruck: 'I make trucks for real people who do real work'

[cvalue13]

While i originally posted due to a misunderstanding (i did not read the trucks part, at first) , i kept it because i still feel the guy's drinking his own cool-aid, like a good CEO. Ford sold 13,258 lightnings in 2022, and this year's quarterly lumbers are down. Not like they really have the demand anyway, with only 150k orders. Maybe if they had a better product..

Not sure the source of your info, but seems strangely all off or misleading at the margins.

ford sold 15,617 Lightnings in 2022 (your numbers appear to be the through Q3 figure?)

those 2022 numbers only cover May 26th forward (first delivery date)

This year’s quarterly numbers are down in part because Ford halted production for a month early in the year.

Ford only has 150K orders because it capped orders at 150, and only in the US market.

In any event, anyone familiar with the Ford “Lightning” badge’s history - dating back to 1993 - knows that it indicates, amongst other things, a temporary, low production, loss-leader vehicle.

meanwhile, interest rates have tripled since release - and that’s a paradigm all vehicles will be entering when it comes to demand.

Then, in that increased interest environment, Ford materially increased prices - the effects of which on sales aren’t lost on Ford. Almost seems like they are either throttling production through pricing, or at least creating environment where they have plenty of inventory for the more lucrative fleet division.

In any event, none of which is to be an apologist for Ford or the lightning - but to at least suggest remotely accurate info be at issue.

Setting aside interest rates, price hikes, limited production, etc., as for the quality of the product - I’m curious what your experience has been with the Lightning?

Next week will be a year with mine. After 30 years in trucks, mostly 1/2 ton Fords, in my experience the Lightning is by an order of magnitude the all-around best F150 Ford has ever produced.

It has its warts. Especially at current pricing and interest rates. What doesn’t?

If the CT delivers what’s expected, and at release pricing and options, it’ll be “better” for most buyers. If it instead deviates downward on certain metrics, whether it’s better for a specific buyer’s use cases may be up for grabs.


Then we’ll see what Ford does with the T3

Sponsored

 

[MonkeyDeLuffy]

Farley is right. I spend more time in virtual world than the real one and I don't have a real job for CT. Simply just a cool, safe and reliable vehicle to haul family around and faster than most ICEs. Why can't Ford make something like that?

 

[Baldey]

Then we’ll see what Ford does with the T3

The T3 does sound interesting, hopefully they can design it from the ground up instead of just slapping a battery into an F150. And i got my numbers from a few googles, these were the most accurate i could come up with. Close enough, still very low volume. Maybe it's cause i've barely been around for 30 years, but for some reason i dont like any of the traditional auto makers. I feel like they've built a wall of bloat that only Tesla has been able to break through, and provide some real first principals thinking to a very very stale, almost antique, industry..

I haven't tried using a Lighting (just own a tesla M3), so i am definitely speaking out of my arse. Good to see that you are enjoying yours... I am an office nerd, the biggest tool i own is a Dremel.. if you don't count my delta printer. I mostly want a truck to rent (my M3 paid for itself), but off-roading sounds fun and would take me back to my childhood riding quads. Also, all those electrical outlets would let me charge my PEVs (unicycles and onewheels), laptops and drones on the go. I also have dreams of towing a sauna places...

320 miles of range doesn't sound like enough for towing, and that is my biggest complaint with the lightning. I am in Colorado, and it gets cold up here.. My M3 looses a good amount of range in the winter, if you try towing that sauna with a Lightning you probably wouldn't get far. Hopefully Tesla sticks to their original claim of around 500 miles. Even if the range is 1/5th of that while towing a 5000 pound sauna in the winter (as i heard about in some cases with the Lightning), that would allow for my use case.

 

[jerhenderson]

that won't take long.

 

[cvalue13]

320 miles of range doesn't sound like enough for towing, and that is my biggest complaint with the lightning.

I personally don’t tow with any regularity - the occasional rented tool, hauled home and back. But that was factored into my use case for the Lightning.

as for towing more broadly:

over on the lightning forums, I’d say there are three rough buckets of reports:

​

people who tow regularly and medium distances: things like large wakeboard boats to a lake that’s 1-1.5hrs away. These folks are pretty universally happy. For this use case, the Lightning performs as well as or better than most 3/4 ton trucks (in terms of torque, speed, handling), and charges at home (offsets those marina fuel charges )​

​

Next are folks who tows large things long distances, and are satisfied. They tend to be BEV-savvy, and not only understand but even perhaps enjoy the thoughtfulness needed. These are often the same folks (or same ilk) that were early adopters of Teslas, before things got “easy”​

​

then there’s the folks who refuse to tow at less than 75-80mph, and otherwise have little patience for the realities of towing with a BEV with a small “tank.”​

It’s this third group that is the source of part of the chatter.

that chatter is then amplified and sensationalized by YouTubers of various varieties - single owners looking for clicks, or auto “review” channels that have little patience for either accuracy or boring content.

that said, for anyone looking to tow big long distances I’d caution them to think it through and decide what’s important to them, and how often they really tow like that.

because if it’s a deal-killer, it’s at the expense of having the best 1/2 ton trucks available on the market (presently) in the SCREW cab sort of configuration.

Aside from all the normal benefits of an F150 (eg massive interior), the Lightning handles great (the only F150 with 4-corner independent suspension, plus the low center of gravity), is crazy quiet and smooth, stupid fast (there’s no good reason that an ice cream truck should be as fast as a BMW M3), and it charges at home, every night.

To outweigh all those day-to-day benefits, you gotta really be a rare bird use case of frequent, large, long towing.

or - in my view - a stubbornly sort that maintains that the only reasonable way to tow an RV is at 80mph in 5 hour stretches.

and for this last group, honestly, I’m not certain that even the CT is going to many of satisfy them.

All that said, I’ll be buying a CT unless Tesla sh*ts the bed on a few of *my* key use-case constraints (or pricing). I suppose we all have our various must-haves. For me, it has to fit three full sized car seats in back, ideally with as much leftover room as the F150.

That’s probably a less rare use constraint than the group of people who tow big long distances so often as to be a deal-breaker.

to each their own

 

[Klaxon]

... He was further quoted saying
...
"Elon, I wish you'd just shut your BIG YAPPER!"

A constructive suggestion but it may accelerate arrival of CT and the competition for Ford.
Be careful what you wish for

 

[cybguy]

Via Electrek

Ford CEO Jim Farley dismissed Tesla Cybertruck as “a cool high-end product parked in front of a hotel” rather than “a truck for real people.”

Will he eat his words?

During an interview with CNBC, Farley appeared to want to distance Ford from Tesla a bit after his company agreed to adopt Tesla’s NACS connector.

He described the move as an “opportunistic” one to increase access to charging for Ford customers, but he claimed that Ford’s charging network was already extensive before that.

The CEO was asked about the imminent launch of the Tesla Cybertruck and he seemed unimpressed.

Farley said about the Cybertruck:

Those are harsh words for Tesla’s first offering in the important and highly profitable pickup market in the US.

A minority of trucks sold in the U.S. are working trucks. Tesla was wise to mainly focus on nonworking truck buyers first. Of course a minority of Cybertruck buyers will use it as a work truck. By 2030 I would expect that Tesla has deliveries of both a smaller truck and a larger working truck. That's when Ford will be in trouble.

 

[kpanda17]

I thought this thread is for CT fans of the possible: 1K horsepower, tri motor, 500 mile range
not an F150 type, but a tank for fun
that's what I want

work truck, Ill get a Lightening, REV or R2T

 

[scottf200]

Then we’ll see what Ford does with the T3

The T3 does sound interesting, hopefully they can design it from the ground up instead of just slapping a battery into an F150.

Good interview here:
Chapters 00:00 Intro
01:16 Touring BlueOval City in Stanton, Tennessee
05:18 Interview with Ford CEO, Jim Farley
07:14 Why did Ford choose Tennessee for BlueOval City?
08:47 What about LFP batteries?
10:05 Has Ford moved beyond the supply chain issues of 2022?
12:40 How important is it for Ford to control its own battery supply?
14:10 How will Ford deal with battery mineral sourcing?
15:29 The future of solid-state batteries and affordable electric vehicles
16:43 Ford's next-generation electric truck codenamed the T3
17:59 Outro

 

[Friday]

Vegas Octagan.
Right after Zuckerburg match.
Musk vs. Farley. CT/Lightning cage match

MOAR WALRUS!

 

[HaulingAss]

That's true, we don't know what the towing range of the Cybertruck will be. But there are already people getting prepared to prove the towing range is too short to take camping:

Sadly, you will not be able to go camping in a Cybertruck. No campfires, no smores, not a real pick-up truck. Nevermind that no one in their right mind buys a 1/2 ton truck to tow huge trailers, there will be a small army of EV haters ready to prove it's not practical.

 

[jerhenderson]

A minority of trucks sold in the U.S. are working trucks. Tesla was wise to mainly focus on nonworking truck buyers first. Of course a minority of Cybertruck buyers will use it as a work truck. By 2030 I would expect that Tesla has deliveries of both a smaller truck and a larger working truck. That's when Ford will be in trouble.

I wonder if Farley knows that most of his real people truck buyers are soccer moms, Costco explorers and weekend golf warriors?

 

[CostcoSamples]

I'm not a real person and I don't do real work, that's why the CT is perfect for me.

 

[Cyberman]

Via Electrek

Ford CEO Jim Farley dismissed Tesla Cybertruck as “a cool high-end product parked in front of a hotel” rather than “a truck for real people.”

Will he eat his words?

During an interview with CNBC, Farley appeared to want to distance Ford from Tesla a bit after his company agreed to adopt Tesla’s NACS connector.

He described the move as an “opportunistic” one to increase access to charging for Ford customers, but he claimed that Ford’s charging network was already extensive before that.

The CEO was asked about the imminent launch of the Tesla Cybertruck and he seemed unimpressed.

Farley said about the Cybertruck:

Those are harsh words for Tesla’s first offering in the important and highly profitable pickup market in the US.

While I'm not a fan of Ford or Farley, you can't blame the guy. He has to come up with some rhetoric to make his product sound superior. We all do it.

Sponsored