4 wheel steering in action on Cybertruck at Giga Texas!

[GnarlyDudeLive]

I’m just saying there is zero chance this doesn’t reduce durability. I just hope it’s optional.

It's risk/reward. Sort of like a seat belt could possibly keep you pinned in a burning car after an accident but the likely hood is low enough that the reward of having your life saved the other 99.99% of the times outweighs it.

In fact, dual/tri/quad motors increase the likely hood of a failure vs a Single motor.

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[Ogre]

Yup! There are more rubicon Starbucks crawlers than anything out there. I know of few true off-roaders that go on trails all the time but they do everything else far more often than getting on the trails. Plus it’s way too long for a true off-roader but when it does the tight turning radius will help tremendously. If history has any indication Tesla always over build things so they last, have y’all seen the Tesla tear down of the motor? Compare to all other “competitors” the bearings from Tesla’s motor is absolutely gigantic.

Exactly. The Cybertruck is not designed to be Teslas “Off Road” vehicle. It’s designed to be a general purpose truck.

Elon said himself the constrains are cells, cells and cells. To those who thinks delaying CT is slowing down EV adoption obviously don’t understand more models mean slower over all EV production/adoption. This is why Tesla focus on very few models but focus on making a boat load of them as supposed to have 100 models like VW.

Cells cells and cells… and chips.

 

[HaulingAss]

I think waiting for a IDRA press and figuring out how to origami a bent steel truck(from home, COVID restricted engineering) has also been some cause for delays too. I hugely disagree that he should step down, but ultimately we are watching Apple all over in front of our very eyes and I wouldn't be surprised to see him step down eventually if it follows that trial.

I think the biggest reason for delay has been the unprecedented demand for existing models. The only compelling reason to start building more models is if it allows Tesla to sell more vehicles. But they are selling as many a they can make with only 4 models (and 2 models are almost 90% of sales). This is what allows Tesla to generate more cash to re-invest in expansion than even their competitors who build more cars overall.

Tesla is buying as many batteries that meet their spec as they can get their hands on and ramping the 4680 cells as fast as practical. Releasing the Cybertruck earlier would not position Tesla as well for continuing the breakneck pace of their global expansion and would actually slow down their main goal - to transition the world to sustainability.

But Tesla doesn't sit still. So, rather than put the Cybertruck on hold, they have continued to develop it, adding functionality and refining the design and production processes so it can ramp faster once it does hit production. Everyone wins. Patience is good.

 

[Ogre]

I’m just saying there is zero chance this doesn’t reduce durability. I just hope it’s optional.

A block of steel is more durable/ reliable than a truck. Along the way between chunk of steel and truck, there are a million choices made between durability and utility.

Not all choices boil down to what is the most reliable way to do a thing. For example: A spring suspension is more durable than an air suspension. But the payoff in ride quality, utility, and range is worth it.

Tesla is designing the truck to be useful for a lot of applications. For most people the utility 4WS offers will almost certainly offset the small risk of a breakdown.

 

[HaulingAss]

Can anyone explain what would happen in a normal vehicle if you swerved at highway speeds with AWS?

Not really sure what happens when you swerve with AWS but here's what happens without:

 

[meleagris4]

Not a good analogy really. I think better would be-legs working pretty good, let’s add a second knee

It is a good analogy. Hip-knee-ankle-toe, all those joints add functionality that evolution has favored over the trade-offs for not having them.
For you, the trade-off isn’t worth it. For most use cases it adds significant benefits that have been listed elsewhere.

 

[Crissa]

I’m just saying there is zero chance this doesn’t reduce durability. I just hope it’s optional.

There's a nonzero chance this increases its durability since it's designed with that in mind. There's a definite chance this reduces the exposure to damage by avoiding accidents in the first place.

-Crissa

 

[Crissa]

Not really sure what happens when you swerve with AWS but here's what happens without:

Ugh, do they really still not require cabs to have rollover resistance except sedans?

The driver is likely as injured as a motorcyclist would be.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

My F150 has an 8' bed and is an extended cab (21'7" w/o trailer ball installed) It does not make the 90 degree turn into a parking space. I am fascinated with this AWS concept as my truck makes use of 50' to turn in any culture-de-sac. Trailering - yes, I see the advantage but what is all the talk about safety? I'm thinking 70mph on the interstate, traveling 3 lengths behind the car in front of you when they toss up a 'gator' (remnants of tire retread come undone), you quickly swerve as you try to predict where this thing is headed. What happens to your vehicle, assuming AWS is not cutout at highway speeds, how does it affect the roll aspect (again, assuming Tesla's computer has not compensated for all this already)? Can anyone explain what would happen in a normal vehicle if you swerved at highway speeds with AWS?

Most likely, at highway speeds, the rear wheels turn the same direction as the front so the truck moves sideways while staying more or less the same orientation. So the tendency to lean is a lot lower.

With a normal truck turning hard at speed causes the front wheels turn, which puts the truck at an angle away from the direction of travel. The truck being oriented differently from the direction of travel means momentum pushes the truck sideways and causes rolls.

If you are towing, the trailer hitch makes a quick movement opposite to the direction you are turning, then quickly follows the truck as it turns. This introduces a lot of sway in the trailer. The trailer also pushes forwards and sideways against the now diagonal truck aggravating that sideway motion your truck is already dealing with.

With 4 wheel steering, the rear wheels turn similar to the front. The truck moves sideways, but the truck stays mostly pointed in the direction of travel. The chances of rolling and the exaggerated movements are reduced. Any trailer will remain mostly behind the truck.

At speed and particularly with a trailer, 4 wheel steering is much safer.

 

[Throwcomputer]

Best example of what Ogre described above:



Also they mention this is with only about 11 degrees of rear wheel rotation. I think someone earlier suggested they saw the CT rear wheels move maybe 20 degrees? Not much is needed for the added safety.

 

[Dusty]

As I was going through the thread thie TFL video was exactly what I was thinking of. Rear wheel steering is FAR from a gimmick. As I've said in other threads, many of Tesla's choices aren't to match other vehicles but to be better.

 

[Bill906]

Best example of what Ogre described above:

As I was going through the thread thie TFL video was exactly what I was thinking of.

Me too! Thank you @Throwcomputer for finding it before I had to.

 

[JBee]

The balancing equation:
The best part is no part versus no part equals no function.

Giga casting is a classic example of the "no part" principle, where 70 conventional parts are all formed into one part, without sacrificing having any "unnecessary parts" that make up a car.

Simple test, drive a vehicle with the same wheelbase and see how you go around town.

For comparison; Rav4 or Rubicon wheelbase is 97", CT is 147".

On durability on 4x4 vehicles: it has been my experience that front CV joints fail much more often than steering elements and 4WS will reduce that as it also reduces the steering angle required at the front, which is the main cause for wear. This will be especially so for a high torque electric motor setup in a heavy vehicle. It will also reduce tyre scrub when turning, which will reduce tyre wear and bearing load, which btw is also a environmental problem as it creates rubber particles. This is because a tyre contact patch is not a single point, rather a rectangular shape, especially on a 35".

 

[charliemagpie]

Wow wow wow , great find TC


DO I need a Dexter sway control , will Tesla's AI on the CT control the sway ? Will 4WS play a part in towing ?, will it help to reverse a caravan in a tight spot ?

Usually we are left pondering such things, but low and behold, a video with the answers.

 

[Huntsman]

Most likely, at highway speeds, the rear wheels turn the same direction as the front so the truck moves sideways while staying more or less the same orientation. So the tendency to lean is a lot lower.

With a normal truck turning hard at speed causes the front wheels turn, which puts the truck at an angle away from the direction of travel. The truck being oriented differently from the direction of travel means momentum pushes the truck sideways and causes rolls.

If you are towing, the trailer hitch makes a quick movement opposite to the direction you are turning, then quickly follows the truck as it turns. This introduces a lot of sway in the trailer. The trailer also pushes forwards and sideways against the now diagonal truck aggravating that sideway motion your truck is already dealing with.

With 4 wheel steering, the rear wheels turn similar to the front. The truck moves sideways, but the truck stays mostly pointed in the direction of travel. The chances of rolling and the exaggerated movements are reduced. Any trailer will remain mostly behind the truck.

At speed and particularly with a trailer, 4 wheel steering is much safer.

Thank you - all

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