4680 Battery Chemistry Upgrade reference:

[agordon117]

But removing cells will drop the voltage. So they must rebalance the arrangement, which changes the physical layout, and the charge/discharge profile, etc. And since it's a structural pack, they must account for the missing strength.

It's easier to just reprint the window sticker lol

there are an estimated 1360 cells in a cybertruck. The cybertruck runs at 800V. A cell is 3.7-4.2v. All they have to do is re-structure how they have the batteries (how many parallel sets of ~50 batteries in series). It's 100% doable. take out 3 or 4 of those sets of ~50 cells in series per truck, and with the parts they could previously have built 10 trucks, they instead have built 12. And they could very easily fill in the gaps in the pack with dummy cells that are far easier and cheaper to make, if you don't think they would do a quick redesign of the pack to be able to hold less cells.

I don't know for a fact this is what they will do, but it's a coin toss that should be considered by anyone waiting for new chemistry. "the best part is no part"

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[Coltpete]

unless, and hear me out... they use 10-20% less cells, so they can build 10-20% more trucks.

Yes, good point. That is very much a possibility.

 

[PilotPete]

unless, and hear me out... they use 10-20% less cells, so they can build 10-20% more trucks.

But that assumes that the 4680 is the restriction to a faster build rate. At this point in ramp up of both products, I don't think that is the case.

 

[agordon117]

But that assumes that the 4680 is the restriction to a faster build rate. At this point in ramp up of both products, I don't think that is the case.

Today, it might not be. But when are these improvements coming? nobody knows. It's a rumor of a rumor. Even if, at the moment the battery line is converted, it's still not the constraint... the point is at some point in the future, they will be cell constrained on cybertruck production. So they may choose to put less cells per pack, so that the point at which they become cell constrained goes further into the future and doesn't impact the production ramp.

And, again, I am not asserting that this 100% will be true, just that it's smart for the people waiting to consider that it's a coin toss which direction they will go.

 

[CyberGus]

I think it's more likely that they would software-cap the upgraded pack at the old kWh, and then offer you an upcharge to unlock the extra capacity

 

[pricedm]

As a reminder, here's EPA range from Rivian. AT tires = range reducers. But also fun enhancers.

 

[agordon117]

I think it's more likely that they would software-cap the upgraded pack at the old kWh, and then offer you an upcharge to unlock the extra capacity

Now you're thinking, lol.

 

[Alan]

You won’t know Ahead of time when Tesla makes an improvement of any kind. They improve things continuously. A new battery chemistry takes quite a bit of time to prove out. They don’t want cars with failing battery’s. They won’t decrease the number of batteries. They know people would like more range. If I was early 60’s or younger I’d wait.

 

[Coltpete]

You put in your order or reservation?
If you put your order in and are scheduled for delivery in the next few weeks would assume it will be the current battery tech that others are getting.

Order. Given the delays were seeing I'd guess I'm a few months out. I was a feb-april delivery. It's possible that's enough time.

 

[scottf200]

there are an estimated 1360 cells in a cybertruck. The cybertruck runs at 800V. A cell is 3.7-4.2v. All they have to do is re-structure how they have the batteries (how many parallel sets of ~50 batteries in series). It's 100% doable. take out 3 or 4 of those sets of ~50 cells in series per truck, and with the parts they could previously have built 10 trucks, they instead have built 12. And they could very easily fill in the gaps in the pack with dummy cells that are far easier and cheaper to make, if you don't think they would do a quick redesign of the pack to be able to hold less cells.

I don't know for a fact this is what they will do, but it's a coin toss that should be considered by anyone waiting for new chemistry. "the best part is no part"

You may enjoy this thread that you possibly missed.

4680 Structural Battery Pack explained - How does it work?
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...battery-pack-explained-how-does-it-work.9731/

 

[agordon117]

You may enjoy this thread that you possibly missed.

4680 Structural Battery Pack explained - How does it work?
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...battery-pack-explained-how-does-it-work.9731/

I know exactly how the structural packs work. They can 100% change the shape of them, or just fill them with dummy cells that cost pennies each instead of dollars each. It's really not that complicated. If it saves them literally 200 cells a pop, they would change the shape of that pack as fast as they can.

 

[scottf200]

As a reminder, here's EPA range from Rivian. AT tires = range reducers. But also fun enhancers.

Cybertruck numbers and %s

 

[scottf200]

But that assumes that the 4680 is the restriction to a faster build rate. At this point in ramp up of both products, I don't think that is the case.

Today, it might not be. But when are these improvements coming? nobody knows. It's a rumor of a rumor. Even if, at the moment the battery line is converted, it's still not the constraint... the point is at some point in the future, they will be cell constrained on cybertruck production. So they may choose to put less cells per pack, so that the point at which they become cell constrained goes further into the future and doesn't impact the production ramp.

And, again, I am not asserting that this 100% will be true, just that it's smart for the people waiting to consider that it's a coin toss which direction they will go.

Tesla 2024 Q4 2023 Earnings

• What has been the barrier for ramping 4680 cells?
  • 4680 production is ahead of the ramp of Cybertruck - goal is to keep it that way not just for Cybertruck, but for future products. It’s a hard problem. Austin swapped line 1 to a new line, which helped volume tremendously. Quality and process changes are first priority. There will be 8 lines total by the third quarter. Tesla still expects to ramp with suppliers, so it will be a supplement.

 

[scottf200]

I know exactly how the structural packs work. They can 100% change the shape of them, or just fill them with dummy cells that cost pennies each instead of dollars each. It's really not that complicated. If it saves them literally 200 cells a pop, they would change the shape of that pack as fast as they can.

Did you at least do me the courtesy of looking at the OP/thread or did you just read the title?

 

[agordon117]

Did you at least do me the courtesy of looking at the OP/thread or did you just read the title?

I skimmed through it, in case there was something new that I wasn't aware of... is there something specific you'd like to draw my attention to? Not that I claim to know literally everything about the structural pack, but I've watched the teardowns and I do understand the theory of it. Nothing about how a structural pack works really changes my position, though I'll admit it's unclear if that's your goal. I may have jumped the gun and you aren't actually taking up an opposing position to what I said.

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