500 mile Cybertruck is a must

JBee

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Stop complaining.

I noticed last week they a building a 4th.

and all 4 are withing walking distance of each other :ROFLMAO:
Obviously my complaining is working! I count one new SC for every 6 complaints from me, so I think a thank you JBee is in order! 😜 🤣
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JBee

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Yes you poor desolate freaken Australians LOL. Fun fact: I've got one from Sydney with her feet in my lap as we speak and both agree - diesel generator is a must in that case haha (although ironically she hates Mad Max I mean wtf kind of blasphemy!)..

and if she makes me watch AU 'Farmer Wants a Wife' one more time I'm putting her back on a plane...
Lol. I was on that show once, was a fairly short season though, right up until my wife got back from her studies and figured out what all the cameras and young ladies were for...:rolleyes::ROFLMAO:

The other day I nearly bought a large bio-diesel plant on auction to go with our biogas plant. I've actually been looking at a little Austrian company that does dedicated one moving part diesel range extenders that will fit in the frunk. Another version to watch out for are Stirling engine powered ones, especially thermoacoustic Stirling engines. Multi fuel capable.
 
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Macgyverfever

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Lol. I was on that show once, was a fairly short season though, right up until my wife got back from her studies and figured out what all the cameras and young ladies were for...:rolleyes::ROFLMAO:

The other day I nearly bought a large bio-diesel plant on auction to go with our biogas plant. I've actually been looking at a little Austrian company that does dedicated one moving part diesel range extenders that will fit in the frunk. Another version to watch out for are Stirling engine powered ones, especially thermoacoustic Stirling engines. Multi fuel capable.
LOL and oh very nice very nice..
 
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EVERYONE knows that Ausies use pig farms and methane for power.

WHO RUNS BARTER TOWN?
Maybe I should try hooking a charger up to a pig's ass? If the truck gets struck by lightning at least I'll have 🥓
 


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The range difference empty to "fully loaded" but contained in a closed vault will be 10-20%. So don't get your hopes up to high.
I appreciate Tesla's capability to exceed all of the other manufacturers. But, until I experience a range depletion of only 10 to 20%, the Rivian and the Ford offerings show a loss much closer to 40 to 50% range loaded with only 1500 pounds of payload. Further, the range loss I experience traveling across the blue mountains with several 5% and 6% grades is significant enough to make use of the supercharger at the foot of the range every time. All of this considered I trust that the offering from Tesla is going to be the best value. Whether that is an actual 500 miles or not.
 

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I appreciate Tesla's capability to exceed all of the other manufacturers. But, until I experience a range depletion of only 10 to 20%, the Rivian and the Ford offerings show a loss much closer to 40 to 50% range loaded with only 1500 pounds of payload. Further, the range loss I experience traveling across the blue mountains with several 5% and 6% grades is significant enough to make use of the supercharger at the foot of the range every time. All of this considered I trust that the offering from Tesla is going to be the best value. Whether that is an actual 500 miles or not.
It's not the poundage, it's the speed and lack of aerodynamics.

And all trucks - ICE or EV - will be hit with the same loss of range.

-Crissa
 
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It's not the poundage, it's the speed and lack of aerodynamics.

And all trucks - ICE or EV will be hit with the same loss of range.

-Crissa
True, but regarding 'the same loss of range' (and in a made-up-scenario to illustrate a point): if a maker creates an EV and claims 300 miles of range because the tester was going 80 mph the whole time, and Tesla was going 55, are we then not apples to oranges?

I do otherwise agree with proportionality of aerodynamics.
 

JBee

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I appreciate Tesla's capability to exceed all of the other manufacturers. But, until I experience a range depletion of only 10 to 20%, the Rivian and the Ford offerings show a loss much closer to 40 to 50% range loaded with only 1500 pounds of payload. Further, the range loss I experience traveling across the blue mountains with several 5% and 6% grades is significant enough to make use of the supercharger at the foot of the range every time. All of this considered I trust that the offering from Tesla is going to be the best value. Whether that is an actual 500 miles or not.
Can you link to tests where that is the result? Because unless there's hills without regen, or your running a flat tyre its hard to do so. Roliing resistance for the whole vehicle due to mass, is less than a third of all the drag at 60mph. According to my calculator it should only require 10% more energy between one person and full load. The rest is aero drag consumption, hence my statement to keep the load under the vault cover where it doesn't impact aerodynamics. A tow ball mounted bike rack could use more because of aero drag.

Note that "only" driving up hill is extra work that is not part of any range estimation thay I know of, and is also not likely seeing you will have to drive down it too. There's no hill that high, that you can also drive up, that will deplete a full pack, and you get a lot of the energy back on the way down. Of course this is all within limits of a "normal" driving style and not a racetrack.

Also loading capacity of 3500lbs will be with one or two people unlikely to be five. No other truck maker specifies payload without including passenger mass. BTW when did EM say the range would be 250miles with a full load, wasn't that Ford? Because when they said it I wasn't impressed either, because it's not a big deal.
 

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True, but regarding 'the same loss of range' (and in a made-up-scenario to illustrate a point): if a maker creates an EV and claims 300 miles of range because the tester was going 80 mph the whole time, and Tesla was going 55, are we then not apples to oranges?

I do otherwise agree with proportionality of aerodynamics.
That's why the test cycles are standardized.

-Crissa
 


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Bogeymen never go away. “Range” finds its way back.

Regardless Elon’s assertions to the contrary, pickups are work trucks. They must haul, trailer, carry and travel well. Stopping every 100mi. for 30min. does not kill the Bogeyman.

Bogeyman creeped into the Quad motor discussion. After 1/2 volume metric consideration, double torque performance and almost twice the horsepower, it reared up! No matter the metric chosen unless the Quad motor translates to extended “Range” for Cybertruck — its mute.
 

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Can you link to tests where that is the result? Because unless there's hills without regen, or your running a flat tyre its hard to do so.
Yep, right -on!

IF the reference is to the eastern US Blue Ridge mountains they are beautiful. But slow driving, curvy, lots of trees and black bears. No downhill runs to regen on the roads. Steep up/steep down and its over in just as short a time - still mountains. Just not the size as out west.

Good reference to test a middling BEV.
 

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Welllll.... :p

I mentioned all of those things in my two paragraph post. Don't need an article for that! ;)
Their comments on regen are actually dead wrong, the less you use it for braking, if you can, the better. Inertia is 100% efficient, regen cycling the batteries is 30% energy loss. That's technic #1 for hypermiling. Generally the less "g's" the more "kays". You always have to pay for change of inertia ie acceleration/deceleration, but you can reduce the cost be reducing the rate.

In general a EV will ALWAYS be more sensitive to load, terrain and driving style changes, simply because an ICE has exponentially more energy in the tank, and is only 30% or less efficient at converting it. A 100kWh battery pack stores the equivalent energy of 9 litres of diesel, an even with the poor ICE efficiency, this is only around 27L equivalent. Most EV's that have a 100kWh pack, are of a size that a ICE would have at least 70-80L tank, so the impact "appears" less significant, but only because it is using much more to start with. Anyways...preaching to choir 😘

My original statement was in regards to the comment:

I hold to the hope that Elon has said, back when he revealed the CT, that the range would be enough to provide 250 miles fully loaded. My interpretation of that long ago comment is that the battery pack will be enough for 500 miles. What I imaging fully loaded to be is 5 passengers and 3500 pounds of payload... but that is the great thing about imagination, it could be reality but rarely is.
To which there are two false premises, one being the ability to reach 500mile range, even if the CT has that rating, and two, halving that range purely because of the extra payload. (the payload is not doubling the CT mass either way)

We addressed the rolling resistance already, being about 10% more because of the full payload. This also depends on tyre choice etc, but is within reason. We will keep the aero the same, but of course if you have stuff sticking out, like a bike rack I mentioned, all bets are off. You could also mount a sail, a parachute, or a giant USA flag, but that doesn't mean it should be included in standardized tests.

Now to increase the altitude and therefore the potential of a CT is another factor, but even there we can come to terms with gravity a little bit IF we use the hypermiling driving technic. Note I'm doing this despite that fact that a range comparison between a fully loaded CT and an empty one, on the same course will not result in the same difference, as comparing it to two different courses as well.

What is the maximum altitude difference on the road that you can drive in the USA?

If we take a single known climb like Pikes Peak, we end up with 2046m (6715ft) of drivable altitude rise on the Pikes Peak highway from Cascade CO.

  1. Lifting 2900kg (6400lbs) of CT and driver that height requires 16kWh of energy, of which up to 11kWh could be recoverable through regen, (IF you didn't need to travel a distance, which is never the case.)
  2. Lifting 4400kg (9700lbs) of CT fully laden to maximum payload requires 24kWh of which 17kWh could be recoverable through regen.
  3. the difference is 8kWh between empty and full payload
That gives you an indication of the energy up and down the hill. Now you need to calculate the aero and rolling drag on top of that, as that will be consumed and is not recoverable. BUT inertia is 100% efficient remember? So even though the regen can only recoup about 70% of the height potential, you vehicle will still use this inertia as it rolls by gravity down the hill, offsetting that amount of power required to travel laterally. So imagine how far you could roll down from the height of Pikes Peak on 24kWh = 54miles!
(PS this applies to ICE vehicles as well even if they don't have regen, but is limited to the point the ICE has to convert interia into heat through the brakes to not overspeed down the hill)

There is an easy way to substantiate this using ABRP:

Tesla Cybertruck 500 mile Cybertruck is a must Pikes Peak Range.PNG

This is just the CT and one passenger.

Tesla Cybertruck 500 mile Cybertruck is a must Pikes Peak Range Loaded.PNG

This is the CT at MAX Payload.

The difference is 5% of battery pack up and only 2% once it gets back down.
The point is if you take the exact same course, drive the exact same way, with exact same traffic etc, the extra payload need only consume an extra 10% on the CT at the most.

In comparison, adding a trailer is like adding a completely other vehicle, that could weigh the same again, adding the same or more rolling resistance, plus it's own aerodynamic drag. That is a huge difference as is evident from the hilly range tests by Lightning and co.
 
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