Any updates?

[CyberMoose]

So I'm not sure what "junk" you still think needs to go in the front of the cybertruck. It's not an ICE. I've clearly labeled and allowed for most of the big items, in particular how the cabin area does not intrude past the front door hinge. If you would have made the effort of recreating the CT from scratch in CAD you probably appreciate just how much space there is in the front, and how that compares to a MX, which seats just as many people. There won't be any more tech in it than a MX, in fact it will likely be less now with the updated modular Plaid driveline and HVAC that is smaller and cheaper. And yet all that doesn't fit in a much larger volume CT?

As for "knowing" how big the CT frunk is I'm sure Ford engineers are more adept in creating a CT facsimile than I, and would not be doing it for fun, but for work, to be competitive so they can sell vehicles. As previously, the reality is that the CT windscreen has much more rake than the F150 windscreen as below. Hence it has space for a big frunk despite all the junk. The bonnet is essentially the same size but tucked under the windscreen.

It fascinates me that in any discussion I have on these forums, which seems to always turn into some personal arguement. There is me who is stating a personal opinon and why i believe it, while clearly stating the possibility of myself being wrong and why. Then there is always someone else who has is absolutely sure of themselves, knows absolutely everything about this truck while everyone else is left in the dark.

Like why couldn't we just leave it with your opinion vs my opinion? do you want me to concede and say you win or something? there is nothing you can say to change my personal opinion without the Cybertruck being released with specs that conflict with my personal opinion.

You can spend all the time in the world analysing this stuff, but i'll still just go with the fact that maybe i'm right and maybe you're right.
Until someone has a production Cybertruck is released and we get this information as facts, no one is right.

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[John K]

It fascinates me that in any discussion I have on these forums, which seems to always turn into some personal arguement. There is me who is stating a personal opinon and why i believe it, while clearly stating the possibility of myself being wrong and why. Then there is always someone else who has is absolutely sure of themselves, knows absolutely everything about this truck while everyone else is left in the dark.

Like why couldn't we just leave it with your opinion vs my opinion? do you want me to concede and say you win or something? there is nothing you can say to change my personal opinion without the Cybertruck being released with specs that conflict with my personal opinion.

You can spend all the time in the world analysing this stuff, but i'll still just go with the fact that maybe i'm right and maybe you're right.
Until someone has a production Cybertruck is released and we get this information as facts, no one is right.

I thought the unwritten rule was to leave Crissa’s opinion and move on?

 

[JBee]

It fascinates me that in any discussion I have on these forums, which seems to always turn into some personal arguement. There is me who is stating a personal opinon and why i believe it, while clearly stating the possibility of myself being wrong and why. Then there is always someone else who has is absolutely sure of themselves, knows absolutely everything about this truck while everyone else is left in the dark.

Like why couldn't we just leave it with your opinion vs my opinion? do you want me to concede and say you win or something? there is nothing you can say to change my personal opinion without the Cybertruck being released with specs that conflict with my personal opinion.

You can spend all the time in the world analysing this stuff, but i'll still just go with the fact that maybe i'm right and maybe you're right.
Until someone has a production Cybertruck is released and we get this information as facts, no one is right.

The point of the conversation here is to share relevant information to the best of our ability, and to understand the information we have. Without absolute certainty we can at least increase the likelihood of our information being correct by comparison and experimentation. And by conversing alternate ideas by presenting details of the matter in various forms.

I have wasted no effort in presenting my side of the argument, to refute your claim to a response I made to tidmutt and not to you. I would appreciate the same courtesy instead of some fluff about opinions.

To be clear I don't seek validation, only new understanding.

Sincerely
JB

 

[CyberMoose]

The point of the conversation here is to share relevant information to the best of our ability, and to understand the information we have. Without absolute certainty we can at least increase the likelihood of our information being correct by comparison and experimentation. And by conversing alternate ideas by presenting details of the matter in various forms.

I have wasted no effort in presenting my side of the argument, to refute your claim to a response I made to tidmutt and not to you. I would appreciate the same courtesy instead of some fluff about opinions.

To be clear I don't seek validation, only new understanding.

Sincerely
JB

Well you start calling the components that i'm refering to as junk, which is just petty. Also we don't even have the production model specifics which is supposed to be 3% smaller.

We can also use the picture that you posted earlier to show the lightning having more space from being a flat hood and not a slanted hood. You can also see that the front triangle window of the Cybertruck cuts into the lightning hood as well. We can see in pictures from the Tesla gallery and the test rides and the ride with Jay Leno that the full window is above the dash. So that's more space as well that is taken away. It's also hard to see on that photo but if you look closely, the Cybertruck cab is at least a couple inches more forward than the lightning. There is still the fact that there is no center console column on the Cybertruck to put anything in like the lightning can do.

But i'm still not conclusively saying anything. Just that I'm not expecting the Cybertruck frunk to match the same capacity of the Lightning. Tesla could still beat Ford in space management with their engineering, or Tesla might add something that takes up space.

The Cybertruck having an exoskeleton could also increase the space of the frunk, or maybe Tesla will add something to help absorb the energy from a collision which could take away space.

 

[Crissa]

The Lightning has a bigger frunk.

It also will have a consequently much lower range.

-Crissa

 

[tidmutt]

The point of the conversation here is to share relevant information to the best of our ability, and to understand the information we have. Without absolute certainty we can at least increase the likelihood of our information being correct by comparison and experimentation. And by conversing alternate ideas by presenting details of the matter in various forms.

I have wasted no effort in presenting my side of the argument, to refute your claim to a response I made to tidmutt and not to you. I would appreciate the same courtesy instead of some fluff about opinions.

To be clear I don't seek validation, only new understanding.

Sincerely
JB

I joined this forum a little while ago but only recently became a regular visitor. I can tell you I am really enjoying the conversations, the banter, the level of apparent expertise present in some of the armchair analysis and predictions. I am learning a great deal and that makes this a great place to spend time when I should be working. hehehe

I have seen a few auto forums descend into battles of personalities, some so much that I avoid visiting them now and sometimes avoid posting questions as dealing with some of those personalities is painful. I humbly encourage you all to keep the banter friendly and don't shy away from expressing reasoned opinions. Lots to be learned all round.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I recall writing, months ago, that with an expected delivery date around the end of this year, Tesla would necessarily have to get prototypes out on the road for testing around 6 months before (this guess was based purely on how Tesla did it for the Model Y rollout). Well, I don't wear a hat but if I did I'd have to eat it because we are past the 6 month mark and no one has seen any prototypes gallavanting around the country in any capacity. I had 'hoped' for a list of features and specs when Elon said he would produce an update, but in fact Tesla never releases a full set of features and specs. One day the manuals will suddenly appear and people will begin the process of figuring out what the features and specs are from those. Very sad but that is just the way the company works. Another data point I have been looking for is the delivery of the first 8K-ton gigapress because we know from several gigapresses that it takes about 2 months to bring them up from the time of delivery, and of course Tesla needs at least 2 of them, one for the front and one for the rear assemblies. So, 4 months minimum to any production. That has no bearing on prototypes of course; Tesla could build prototypes in any number of ways and still gain good data. The whole thing is frustrating for all of us. I feel like pulling my hair out but that is not a great solution to the anxiety, just a symptom.

 

[Idaho_7]

I have an update: Just bought a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon with two options....1.) Mud Tires and 2.) A Trailer Hitch...... Soft top, Manual 6-Speed Transmission .....It probably goes zero to 60 in 20 seconds .....Love it!

 

[fritter63]

I have an update: Just bought a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon with two options....1.) Mud Tires and 2.) A Trailer Hitch...... Soft top, Manual 6-Speed Transmission .....It probably goes zero to 60 in 20 seconds .....Love it!

 

[JBee]

Well you start calling the components that i'm refering to as junk, which is just petty. Also we don't even have the production model specifics which is supposed to be 3% smaller.

We can also use the picture that you posted earlier to show the lightning having more space from being a flat hood and not a slanted hood. You can also see that the front triangle window of the Cybertruck cuts into the lightning hood as well. We can see in pictures from the Tesla gallery and the test rides and the ride with Jay Leno that the full window is above the dash. So that's more space as well that is taken away. It's also hard to see on that photo but if you look closely, the Cybertruck cab is at least a couple inches more forward than the lightning. There is still the fact that there is no center console column on the Cybertruck to put anything in like the lightning can do.

But i'm still not conclusively saying anything. Just that I'm not expecting the Cybertruck frunk to match the same capacity of the Lightning. Tesla could still beat Ford in space management with their engineering, or Tesla might add something that takes up space.

The Cybertruck having an exoskeleton could also increase the space of the frunk, or maybe Tesla will add something to help absorb the energy from a collision which could take away space.

Sorry if the "junk" terminology offended, it was not directed at you rather just at "the other parts" that need to fit in the front. I realise there still a few components in a EV, but in comparison a ICE has thousands of moving parts that are just unnecessary "junk" in comparison. The point of making an EV is to simplify the design and in doing so improve functionality and performance. (Which most Teslas do)

The height variance between the Lightning and CT is mostly due to what you pointed out the CT has, a "exoskeleton". The Lightning is not even a unibody platform, but a body on frame. This is why there is some 100-150mm of "wasted" height on the F150, that the CT doesn't have. Imagine the CT window sill is the same height as the F150, and then deduct the F150 underbody chassis for a space comparison.

I suppose there are really two opposing factors when considering the size of the frunk. 1) the windscreen rake 2) the length of the hood. If the CT had the same superstructure shape (over the window sill height) as a F150, it would be more obvious that the CT still has a 1.5m (5ft) long "hood" volume. This mono-volume design reminds me of the Renault Twingo I used to drive as a teen in europe:

If you look inside the Twingo you'll notice a very long inside dash where the front transverse mounted engine is tucked up under the front windscreen. The CT doesn't have a ICE of course, but the point is that even though this car looks like it barely has a hood, it's engine bay is much larger because it continues under the windscreen and under the inside dash. In the case of the CT though, the distance between the front bumper and where the cabin area starts is 1.5m (5ft) which is half the length of this twingo. Which also had aircon etc btw ;-)

Note the CT cabin interior only starts behind the front door hinge in the photos I showed previously. So quite far back on the CT.

Also in regards to the exoskeleton you mention, I'm pretty confident that this allows for a very effective internal packaging. That together with the structural 4860 battery pack, and the front and rear single cast assemblies, I'm expecting great utility. This is because unlike the F150 there is no internal frame to support the body that has to be above it. Plus either sidewall along the whole length of the CT is structural (like a truss bridge) which unlike a chassis is torsionaly much more rigid without a weight penalty (meaning you can use less steel).

As for crash testing I think that a frunk is beneficial, of course depending on what people actually end up putting in there, at the expensive of crushing your luggage. But in comparison to having loose luggage flying around in the cabin because the bed is dirty, I'm sure it would be better off being in the frunk instead.

 

[JBee]

The Lightning has a bigger frunk.

It also will have a consequently much lower range.

-Crissa

I'm not sure how they relate to each other. I'd expect if you'd remove the frunk and the frunk cover, you'd end up with much worse aerodynamics? The skin friction generated from the length of the vehicle is trivial at the speeds the vehicle is travelling at. The frontal area and overall shape is much more dominant, and doesn't really depend on what contents it hides underneath (frunk/trunk/cabin). Unlike for example a roof rack, that has clear inefficiencies that would degrade range.

 

[Diehard]

I have an update: Just bought a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon with two options....1.) Mud Tires and 2.) A Trailer Hitch...... Soft top, Manual 6-Speed Transmission .....It probably goes zero to 60 in 20 seconds .....Love it!

Love the fact that your update was in fact in Q2.

I'm not sure how they relate to each other. I'd expect if you'd remove the frunk and the frunk cover, you'd end up with much worse aerodynamics? The skin friction generated from the length of the vehicle is trivial at the speeds the vehicle is travelling at. The frontal area and overall shape is much more dominant, and doesn't really depend on what contents it hides underneath (frunk/trunk/cabin). Unlike for example a roof rack, that has clear inefficiencies that would degrade range.

My understanding of what Crissa is suggesting is this:

If you diagonally cut a square block to two pieces each piece will have half the volume. In the same manner, F150 Frunk is the full block with more volume than CT Frunk. Consequently CT has smaller Flat area upfront to fight the air flow, hence better aerodynamics resulting in better range. In other words CT pays for better range by reducing storage. Lightening improves storage by paying for it in range. It sounds to me they are directly related.

This guy is not demonstrating the point I am trying to make but it is related:

https://www.xautoworld.com/tesla/cybertruck-raptor-ram-aerodynamics/

 

[Tesla4KShares]

That is almost crazy to me, because it doesn't help at all if you need to access the truck bed, and it's at a more or less fixed angle, when it does happen to be closed. The best solar will follow the sun.

Solar built-in panel:
I always said the built-in Solar using the vault cover is not that good of an idea. I want my solar panel to follow the sun, not set in stone on the back of the vault which I constantly need access too.

Vault cover:
I don‘t think it should be a mandatory feature. It should be an option. Looking at the vault cover design, the panel has to fold back from the back of the passenger cabin. It makes it harder to have a fold-down back wall so that passenger can get-through from/to the back & front space.

 

[Crissa]

I'm not sure how they relate to each other.

About 50% of the volume of the Lightning Frunk is that high, unsightly nose.

-Crissa

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