Braking power

[SentinelOne]

...They have no idea what they're talking about?

Because the Rivian is several hundred pounds heavier. It needs those brakes to stop in the same distance.

Braking tests have them in about the same distance.

??‍

±3 feet or <2.5% isn't significant compared to reaction time.

-Crissa

...They have no idea what they're talking about?

Because the Rivian is several hundred pounds heavier. It needs those brakes to stop in the same distance.

Braking tests have them in about the same distance.

??‍

±3 feet or <2.5% isn't significant compared to reaction time.

-Crissa

Rotor dimensions beg to differ, so does feedback from members here, media, etc. Stopping distance is one variable and agree its competative, but braking also includes feel, consistency, heat dissapation, etc….i dont have my truck yet, so i could be more than wrong…that being said i will get great brakes for my vehicle and i havent heard anyone say great brakes….at best most are meh, ok and lesser than the rivian!

i tow, i drive fast when approriate and i have the $s for upgrades if needed….my needs are my own and not debatable!

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[pricedm]

...
If the brakes were not adequate, you could not get the ABS to engage all the way to a stop. Unless you are talking about driving on a road race course with repeated high-speed heavy braking/accelerations. And then there is not a truck out there that couldn't use bigger brakes with more thermal capacity.

...Even when I'm loaded to GVWR and descending steep grades the friction brakes are not even used.

Like this? Nice load, doing truck things!
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...k-things-🦾-post-your-photos.14096/post-318575

 

[HaulingAss]

Stopping distance is one variable and agree its competative, but braking also includes feel, consistency, heat dissapation, etc….i dont have my truck yet, so i could be more than wrong…that being said i will get great brakes for my vehicle and i havent heard anyone say great brakes….at best most are meh, ok and lesser than the rivian!

OK, having been driving a real Cybertruck for over a month I'll say it, the Cybertruck has great brakes! I say this not because it's something you notice in normal driving (the friction brakes are not even used when towing a heavy load or descending steep grades loaded to the GVWR). I say it because I have tested the brakes from 100 mph down to zero in emergency stopping conditions. On clean grippy pavement. The brakes haul that mass down to zero mph as fast as the tires allow.

I've also tested them with two wheels on dry grippy pavement and two wheels on the gravel shoulder. And it stopped as fast as the unequal coefficient of frictions from left to right allowed, straight and true, with exceptional control. My F-150 doesn't do that as well, it does it like it's drunk, compared to the Cybertruck.

People like to wax poetic about "brake feel" but those days are long gone. Don't get me wrong, as a lifelong performance motorcycle rider I was all about "brake feel". But in a modern world, the computers apply braking power individually, to the wheel(s) that can absorb the most torque, instantaneously. Not only can the computers modulate the brakes faster than any human possibly could (to account for uneven surfaces and varying coefficients of friction through the stopping distance), they can also apply friction to the discs individually. That is a big one. Are you aware of any brake pedal that can apply different forces to different wheels at the same time?

I'm still a fan of the individual brake control on a motorcycle, but I have never invested in anti-lock brakes for my motorcycles even though they are available. That's because I'm an expert at braking, and I like the manual control. But I would never be so ignorant as to claim I can out-perform the anti-lock brakes available for my Ducati under tricky conditions. It's not humanly possible.

Of course there is not a car or truck on the market that can allow the driver to manually modulate all four brakes individually. Stopping distance is not about the power of the discs (once there is enough), or the feel of the brake pedal, it's about the tuning of the anti-lock braking and stability assist systems. Talking about putting bigger rotors and calipers on a truck that already has bigger calipers and rotors than it needs for anything but driving on a racetrack just exposes one's ignorance of how braking actually works. If you want faster stopping, put on stickier rubber, more "pedal feel" is going to do nothing more than fool you that you have more control than you do, because anti-lock brakes and stability controls outperform the best humans under real world conditions.

i tow, i drive fast when approriate and i have the $s for upgrades if needed….my needs are my own and not debatable!

Your needs certainly are debatable, even if your preferences are not.

I will tell you this, the thermal capacities of Cybertrucks rotors and calipers are more than sufficient to haul a fully loaded Cybertruck to a quick stop on the grippiest pavement with the best of them. Any differences in stopping distance between different brands is down to tire grip (braking distances are always tested with the OEM tires) and the effectiveness of the suspension, and the anti-lock braking and stability control computers and associated valving.

Further, Tesla actually exceeds the stopping performance of comparable vehicles by a small margin, in every comparable case that I've seen. So harping on "undersized rotors" just shows that one doesn't know what they are talking about. Cybertruck rotors are massive, especially for the amount they are actually used in real everyday driving, even when driving too spirited for general safety of other road users.

Certainly, if you bought the Cybertruck to road race race in the Pickup Truck Roadrace Circuit of the Americas, I could get behind equipping every truck out there with more massive rotors, but, as far as I know, road racing stock pickups is not a thing. As it stands, ICE pickups are the ones lacking in thermal capacity of their brakes, because they have very limited compression braking compared to the amount of regen Cybertruck has. Descending long, steep grades with heavy loads requires riding those friction brakes of ICE trucks, even when maximizing engine braking.

As to towing at or near the rated towing limits, if that adds substantially more load to the trucks braking system, your trailer braking setup is set up improperly. It's not good to have the tongue of a heavy trailer pushing that hard on the tow vehicle, the trailer should be controlling its own weight on long descents and have the brakes to deal with it. Of course the Cybertruck has oversized brakes to handle this very situation, at least to any reasonable degree.

As to brake feel, bigger rotors will not give you more sensitive brake feel, you would have to engineer and build new anti-lock braking systems, including the hydraulic valving, new software, new master cylinders, etc. It's not feasible without many millions of development dollars, and the result would probably underperform, even if the "brake feel" were more to your liking. Wax poetic about "brake feel" all you want, when the lives of you and your family are on the line, you want to stand on that brake pedal, or steer around the hazard, not finesse the brake pedal like you are God's gift to fine brake control. Save that for vehicles without the modern advantages of anti-lock braking and stability controls.

I'll say it again, the brakes on the Cybertruck can haul all that mass down from 100 mph twice in a row, without even the slightest hint of brake fade. I didn't test beyond that because it's pointless. Had I detected the thermal limit rearing it's ugly head, I would have investigated further, but the second stop was just as good as the first, actually slightly better, which I attributed to the brakes and tires being more up to temperature. The brakes are impressively robust and powerful, which is kind of a waste, since they are only used, even lightly, in extreme situations.

 

[HaulingAss]

Like this? Nice load, doing truck things!
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/cybertruck-doing-truck-things-?-post-your-photos.14096/post-318575

Yes, exactly. I felt like those massive brake rotors and calipers were going to waste descending a 10% grade.

 

[Crissa]

Rotor dimensions beg to differ, so does feedback from members here, media, etc.

So why is it you're not quoting any solid evidence?

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/...st-review/#:~:text=Braking: Stops from 60 mph

You can totally change out the brakes if you want, but making shit up doesn't fly.

-Crissa

 

[SentinelOne]

OK, having been driving a real Cybertruck for over a month I'll say it, the Cybertruck has great brakes! I say this not because it's something you notice in normal driving (the friction brakes are not even used when towing a heavy load or descending steep grades loaded to the GVWR). I say it because I have tested the brakes from 100 mph down to zero in emergency stopping conditions. On clean grippy pavement. The brakes haul that mass down to zero mph as fast as the tires allow.

I've also tested them with two wheels on dry grippy pavement and two wheels on the gravel shoulder. And it stopped as fast as the unequal coefficient of frictions from left to right allowed, straight and true, with exceptional control. My F-150 doesn't do that as well, it does it like it's drunk, compared to the Cybertruck.

People like to wax poetic about "brake feel" but those days are long gone. Don't get me wrong, as a lifelong performance motorcycle rider I was all about "brake feel". But in a modern world, the computers apply braking power individually, to the wheel(s) that can absorb the most torque, instantaneously. Not only can the computers modulate the brakes faster than any human possibly could (to account for uneven surfaces and varying coefficients of friction through the stopping distance), they can also apply friction to the discs individually. That is a big one. Are you aware of any brake pedal that can apply different forces to different wheels at the same time?

I'm still a fan of the individual brake control on a motorcycle, but I have never invested in anti-lock brakes for my motorcycles even though they are available. That's because I'm an expert at braking, and I like the manual control. But I would never be so ignorant as to claim I can out-perform the anti-lock brakes available for my Ducati under tricky conditions. It's not humanly possible.

Of course there is not a car or truck on the market that can allow the driver to manually modulate all four brakes individually. Stopping distance is not about the power of the discs (once there is enough), or the feel of the brake pedal, it's about the tuning of the anti-lock braking and stability assist systems. Talking about putting bigger rotors and calipers on a truck that already has bigger calipers and rotors than it needs for anything but driving on a racetrack just exposes one's ignorance of how braking actually works. If you want faster stopping, put on stickier rubber, more "pedal feel" is going to do nothing more than fool you that you have more control than you do, because anti-lock brakes and stability controls outperform the best humans under real world conditions.



Your needs certainly are debatable, even if your preferences are not.

I will tell you this, the thermal capacities of Cybertrucks rotors and calipers are more than sufficient to haul a fully loaded Cybertruck to a quick stop on the grippiest pavement with the best of them. Any differences in stopping distance between different brands is down to tire grip (braking distances are always tested with the OEM tires) and the effectiveness of the suspension, and the anti-lock braking and stability control computers and associated valving.

Further, Tesla actually exceeds the stopping performance of comparable vehicles by a small margin, in every comparable case that I've seen. So harping on "undersized rotors" just shows that one doesn't know what they are talking about. Cybertruck rotors are massive, especially for the amount they are actually used in real everyday driving, even when driving too spirited for general safety of other road users.

Certainly, if you bought the Cybertruck to road race race in the Pickup Truck Roadrace Circuit of the Americas, I could get behind equipping every truck out there with more massive rotors, but, as far as I know, road racing stock pickups is not a thing. As it stands, ICE pickups are the ones lacking in thermal capacity of their brakes, because they have very limited compression braking compared to the amount of regen Cybertruck has. Descending long, steep grades with heavy loads requires riding those friction brakes of ICE trucks, even when maximizing engine braking.

As to towing at or near the rated towing limits, if that adds substantially more load to the trucks braking system, your trailer braking setup is set up improperly. It's not good to have the tongue of a heavy trailer pushing that hard on the tow vehicle, the trailer should be controlling its own weight on long descents and have the brakes to deal with it. Of course the Cybertruck has oversized brakes to handle this very situation, at least to any reasonable degree.

As to brake feel, bigger rotors will not give you more sensitive brake feel, you would have to engineer and build new anti-lock braking systems, including the hydraulic valving, new software, new master cylinders, etc. It's not feasible without many millions of development dollars, and the result would probably underperform, even if the "brake feel" were more to your liking. Wax poetic about "brake feel" all you want, when the lives of you and your family are on the line, you want to stand on that brake pedal, or steer around the hazard, not finesse the brake pedal like you are God's gift to fine brake control. Save that for vehicles without the modern advantages of anti-lock braking and stability controls.

I'll say it again, the brakes on the Cybertruck can haul all that mass down from 100 mph twice in a row, without even the slightest hint of brake fade. I didn't test beyond that because it's pointless. Had I detected the thermal limit rearing it's ugly head, I would have investigated further, but the second stop was just as good as the first, actually slightly better, which I attributed to the brakes and tires being more up to temperature. The brakes are impressively robust and powerful, which is kind of a waste, since they are only used, even lightly, in extreme situations.

"Your needs certainly are debatable, even if your preferences are not." Accurate.

I have a KTM 1390, Indian Challenger, Aprilia Tuono all with abs / cornering abs - so understand the electronics angle and that's nobody is manually helping the brakes via pedal actuation in the CT or modern vehicle- I like modern brake setups to keep me safe at speed (within limits of physics).

Region helps a lot but doesn't eliminate the need for real brake usage at speed - doesn't on my m3p for sure, and guessing not in 100% of towing situations (well maybe) my current setup with exhaust brake diesel does really good so maybe region will too, tbd. Not concerned about trailer setup as I'll do that right although cant load fully with CT specs.

Understand tires play a role and will be addressed if / as needed - still conflicted if I get a street and off-road setup or stay with OEM 1 size fits all solution.

My M3P has a brake brace and stainless lines on it that prevents flex when actuating the pedal, it's awesome and was inexpensive - so not all about rotors for sure.

Your test from 100mph gives hope / confidence, others I've seen less so - guess I'll find out when I get my truck - hope your experience is the norm and correct, saves me $'s and I'd be happy!

 

[HaulingAss]

Has anyone done a hard stop 80 mph to zero braking comparison between the cybertruck and the cyberbeast? Maybe it will turn out that the extra braking from the third engine is actually even more desirable than the acceleration boost for all practical purposes.

No, the extra regen of the third motor will not shorten stopping distances vs. the Dual Motor because braking is limited by the amount of traction the tires have, not the power of the brakes.

The brakes on both versions are more than powerful enough to bring the tires to the limits of traction, even when regen is zero due to being charged to 100% or a very cold battery.

 

[Speedr]

Measured tests show that the brakes are good for a full-size truck on all terrain tires. I think people who this they aren't good are because you forget you're driving a full size truck and think you're driving a normal car. I often forget that until I see people looking at me, then remember what I'm in...

 

[HaulingAss]

Let me get this straight. I'll let you tell me where I'm wrong:

1) You don't own a Cybertruck.

2) You have never driven a Cybertruck.

3) You joined the forum yesterday and already have 14 posts talking crap about Elon, Tesla and Cybertruck.

4) The Cybertruck has "shit" brakes because Tesla engineers decided to "cheaper out" on the brakes.

5) We are idiots to accept these "shit" brakes.

6) You actually know what you're talking about.

Which one did I get wrong? I'm guessing I got #6 wrong. Oh, I get it, whatever you say we will have to take your word that you are being honest and sincere, but we can do that, even though you have zero history before yesterday and no particular expertise in modern braking systems.

 

[CyberGus]

Let me get this straight. I'll let you tell me where I'm wrong:

Apparently you've replied to a removed post (and probably a banned user).

And now you look like the crazy person, shaking his fist at the sky for no particular reason

 

[HaulingAss]

Apparently you've replied to a removed post (and probably a banned user).

And now you look like the crazy person, shaking his fist at the sky for no particular reason

Ha-ha! That's OK. I would delete it, but the sad fact of the matter is the same concept applies more broadly, to many of the people who only come here to talk shit about Elon, Tesla and the Cybertruck in particular. The primary difference between them and the previous member I was replying to, is the latter was stupid enough to make actual threats against me.

I'm perfectly fine with people bringing up areas where the Cybertruck could be improved, it's just that much of the negative noise is forced, it's not sincere, often it's not even based on real, first-hand experience, it's just something they have "heard". Often, it's just an attempt to keep the forum disharmonious, so a casual observer dropping by to learn more about the Cybertruck leaves with a negative impression, with a bad feeling in the pit of their stomach. That's these people's goal.

The ones who are the best at avoiding getting banned can hardly be distinguished from the rest of us, except for their constant focus on the negative. If they have an occasional neutral post, or even a slightly positive one, it is only to confuse others as to their true purpose of spending time here.

 

[SSonnentag]

I've been driving my Cybertruck for about 2 weeks now. I normally drive the speed limit and leave plenty of room ahead to allow for stopping using only regen. There have been a couple of times where I needed to stop faster than regen could provide, and I was startled by the lack of braking power.

To me the brakes feel squishy. I've been driving our Tesla S, X and Y over the past 8 years and have become accustomed to a firm, light brake feel being all that is required. The Cybertruck's brakes definitely do NOT have the same confidence-inspiring feel to them as all the other Teslas I've driven. Perhaps it's simply due to reduced brake boost? Perhaps some trucks are flawed? Perhaps Tesla decided trucks shouldn't have a nice, modern, confidence-inspiring brake feel? I don't know, but my Cybertruck definitely requires a LOT more pedal pressure to get any sort of slowing response.

My next steps will be to do a couple of hard braking tests to be sure the pads and rotors are well seated. Then I will try an emergency stop to be sure ABS kicks in. If ABS doesn't respond I'll be scheduling a service appointment.

 

[Jacob]

FWIW, I too have thought the brake system (as a whole) took an excessive amount of pedal pressure in an emergency stop (considering the weight). I expected the tires to be at their threshold and the ABS to kick on with the amount of pedal pressure that I was applying but it didn't happen. I also can see where it might have felt like brake fade as pressing on the pedal harder did not have a linear effect on stopping power (pressing much harder only gave somewhat more braking). Not saying that the brakes aren't good, just saying that I thought the pedal pressure was excessive (and not confidence inspiring) given the braking that was being done. My Hummer EV seemed to take less pedal pressure to activate the ABS (at least as far as I can recall) and I know it's much heavier.

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