Cybertruck camera mirrors

Jhodgesatmb

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Cameras are now cheaper than mirrors, more reliable than mirrors, and can be placed anywhere on the vehicle and load providing a view that no mirror could ever match.

Cameras are straight up better the bigger the load.

-Crissa

PS, to collect data, they need to allow some number of no-mirror cars on the roads.
I haven't read the entire post that came in last night but it sure looked like you have to have cameras mounted on your vehicle and monitors in your vehicle to be able to provide the kind of data they are looking for. We know that Audi (was it Audi?) applied for an exemption to do this kind of testing, and Tesla might have as well.

I happen to agree with the various comments supporting the use of cameras and monitors. One of the features I have grown to love in modern vehicles is the adjustable mirror controls, since we are all different sizes, shapes, and even change our positions almost daily, and of course the memories our vehicles have for different drivers, or for backing up vs normal driving. I am certain that the NHTSA will be looking for manufacturers to 'mirror' (sorry for the bad pun - well, not that sorry) these features in addition to looking for ways the monitors are placed to improve visability without adversely affecting the driver's attention.

Perhaps the best thing about cameras and monitors is that they can be changed with software going forward. A mirror will always be a mirror, good or bad.

I have found that the camera side views on our Model 3 are exceptional. My only wish is that the side views would have their own monitors roughly where I would look for current external mirrors. I think that the NHTSA is looking to resolve this kind of issue.

In the end, the NHTSA is not looking to replace mirrors but to assure the public that any mechanism employed by auto makers adheres to the same or better visibility requirements that are currently in place, and of course we should all agree with them. We have seen many comments on CTOF from people that would give up their reservations if mirrors (and large ones at that) aren't kept on the truck. It may well be that Tesla ends up offering mirrors for those who want them. Personally, I would be happy to give them up in exchange for what I consider a better system/approach but not at the cost of safety or visibility.
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firsttruck

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Pedestrians & cyclists being hit by only side/wing mirrors is common occurrence.

Can be fatal too, especially with larger mirrors used on most trucks.


-----------------

Car rear and side collisions with pedestrians and cyclists Compact accident research
GDV | The German Insurers No. 71
Content: Dr. Matthias Kühn
Published: 07/2017
https://repository.difu.de/jspui/bitstream/difu/249672/1/DS1723.pdf

.....
Collisions between pedestrians and the sides of cars (includes side/wing mirrors)

As figure 1 shows, collisions between a pedestrian and the left- or right-hand side of a vehicle accounted for 23 percent of the accidents. There is no significant difference in the number of cases involving the left and right sides of vehicles. Children aged 12 or younger were involved in twice as many collisions with the right-hand side (in 11 cases, accounting for 24 percent of all accidents) as with the left-hand side (5 cases, amounting to 12 percent of the total). In 25 of the 89 cases (28 percent), the pedestrian had contact with one of the vehicle’s wing mirrors. In over half of these cases (15 out of 25), the pedestrian was hit only by the wing mirror (17 percent of all side-impact collisions). Figure 5 shows examples of collisions between pedestrian and the car`s wing mirror.

The fact that collisions between pedestrians and wing mirrors occur repeatedly merits further analysis of these accidents. If you look at the smooth contours of modern vehicles, it becomes clear that the wing mirrors are now the only protruding part of the car interrupting these contours. They thus have the potential to cause injury in collisions with more vulnerable road users generally. If we take a closer look at these accident situations, the following becomes clear:• The average speed of the vehicles involved in these accidents was 40 km/h ( 25 mi/h).• The pedestrians were generally injured by the secondary impact with the road surface (in 8 out of 11 cases).• The wing mirrors on the left and right of the car were involved in a roughly equal number of cases.• The average age of the pedestrians was 62. In 3 out of the 8 cases, the pedestrians sustained MAIS 3+ injuries, all caused by the secondary impact.An analysis of the accidents revealed that some of them would not have happened if the cars had been equipped with camera monitor systems instead of wing mirrors. Camera monitor systems will thus help to make the contours of vehicles more pedestrian friendly and therefore they should be further developed and introduced in the market.

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ajdelange

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How can anyone say this is not safer?
I would say it's not safer because the cameras can fail. Happened to me in my X. I have had mirrors fail too but never all of them at once.
 

Ogre

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I would say it's not safer because the cameras can fail. Happened to me in my X. I have had mirrors fail too but never all of them at once.
It's a fair point. I've only had it once, but my console crashed on me while I was driving. Took about a minute to reboot.

Considering the size and visibility issues when the vault is closed, the blind spots when you don't have the cameras on are huge.

EDIT: I'm a huge fan of the cameras, but it would be pretty messy if they cut out.
 

ajdelange

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It's a fair point. I've only had it once, but my console crashed on me while I was driving. Took about a minute to reboot.
I used to joke that you could always pick out the Tesla drivers in a crowd. They were the ones with the calluses on their thumbs. Much better now, BTW.

In my case the main computer failed. All the cameras interface with that.


EDIT: I'm a huge fan of the cameras, but it would be pretty messy if they cut out.
Yes, me too. If they do get approved, and I think they will, they will be required to mp up the redundancy.
 

Jhodgesatmb

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I would say it's not safer because the cameras can fail. Happened to me in my X. I have had mirrors fail too but never all of them at once.
If that happens you stop the car and reboot, as I am sure you did. I cannot count the number of times I have had to stop a car with mirrors to clean them off otherwise they are useless. Both mirrors. What is the difference?

Incidentally (although off topic) the same is true for wiper systems and windows. If they stop working you have to stop driving and fix them or you could be the cause of (or participate in) an accident.
 

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If that happens you stop the car and reboot, as I am sure you did. I cannot count the number of times I have had to stop a car with mirrors to clean them off otherwise they are useless. Both mirrors. What is the difference?

Incidentally (although off topic) the same is true for wiper systems and windows. If they stop working you have to stop driving and fix them or you could be the cause of (or participate in) an accident.
It s a catch-22. You need to stop your car to reboot to get your camera fixed, but you need your cameras to safely get off the highway.

I've never had my mirrors instantly become so occluded I couldn't use them.

Again... love the cameras, but maybe they should be on a separate controller from the main console?
 

firsttruck

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I would say it's not safer because the cameras can fail. Happened to me in my X. I have had mirrors fail too but never all of them at once.
Can happen with mirrors too.

Was driving on the interstate I-70 in fairly new (2 years old) Chevrolet Impala across the Western part of U.S. Was speeding along at 65-70mph, out in middle of nowhere, 100 miles from anything and the driver side mirror just fell off. Broke at ball pivot socket not at the door mount. Had to keep driving without driver side mirror for a couple days before got to place with real stores.
 

ReddykwRun

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-----------------

Pedestrians & cyclists being hit by only side/wing mirrors is common occurrence.

Can be fatal too, especially with larger mirrors used on most trucks.


-----------------

Car rear and side collisions with pedestrians and cyclists Compact accident research
GDV | The German Insurers No. 71
Content: Dr. Matthias Kühn
Published: 07/2017
https://repository.difu.de/jspui/bitstream/difu/249672/1/DS1723.pdf

.....
Collisions between pedestrians and the sides of cars (includes side/wing mirrors)

As figure 1 shows, collisions between a pedestrian and the left- or right-hand side of a vehicle accounted for 23 percent of the accidents. There is no significant difference in the number of cases involving the left and right sides of vehicles. Children aged 12 or younger were involved in twice as many collisions with the right-hand side (in 11 cases, accounting for 24 percent of all accidents) as with the left-hand side (5 cases, amounting to 12 percent of the total). In 25 of the 89 cases (28 percent), the pedestrian had contact with one of the vehicle’s wing mirrors. In over half of these cases (15 out of 25), the pedestrian was hit only by the wing mirror (17 percent of all side-impact collisions). Figure 5 shows examples of collisions between pedestrian and the car`s wing mirror.

The fact that collisions between pedestrians and wing mirrors occur repeatedly merits further analysis of these accidents. If you look at the smooth contours of modern vehicles, it becomes clear that the wing mirrors are now the only protruding part of the car interrupting these contours. They thus have the potential to cause injury in collisions with more vulnerable road users generally. If we take a closer look at these accident situations, the following becomes clear:• The average speed of the vehicles involved in these accidents was 40 km/h ( 25 mi/h).• The pedestrians were generally injured by the secondary impact with the road surface (in 8 out of 11 cases).• The wing mirrors on the left and right of the car were involved in a roughly equal number of cases.• The average age of the pedestrians was 62. In 3 out of the 8 cases, the pedestrians sustained MAIS 3+ injuries, all caused by the secondary impact.An analysis of the accidents revealed that some of them would not have happened if the cars had been equipped with camera monitor systems instead of wing mirrors. Camera monitor systems will thus help to make the con-tours of vehicles more pedestrian friendly and therefore they should be further developed and introduced in the market.

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When I wore a younger man's clothes I was in a military truck (deuce and a half) on a narrow bridge and another truck was in the opposite lane coming towards us. The mirrors slapped, the glass shattered, glad our driver had his sun glasses on, could have been ugly. Did not feel like going swimming that day.
 

Zenny

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If that happens you stop the car and reboot, as I am sure you did. I cannot count the number of times I have had to stop a car with mirrors to clean them off otherwise they are useless. Both mirrors. What is the difference?

Incidentally (although off topic) the same is true for wiper systems and windows. If they stop working you have to stop driving and fix them or you could be the cause of (or participate in) an accident.
One difference is physical mirrors, headlights, etc are things we can check and maintain before driving & some redundancy vs software - eg if you have an entire camera system down. Then again, low chance & I’m all for the CT cams…
 

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Today has been an awesome day! Keep this positive stuff coming😍
How can anyone say this is not safer? Lol. I really want the CT to not have outside mirrors. Love the xtra info👍
Hope the technology would support a "satellite camera / 3rd eye" you could place on the back of a utility trailer or camper to totally eliminate any blind spot. Way cool surround vision
 

firsttruck

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Cameras not mentioned but a lot of considerations of direct vision vs indirect ( via mirrors)

If you do not want to spend a lot of time, just reading the abstract, introduction, and conclusion (start page 81) sections is very informative.


--------------------------

PRIORITIZING IMPROVEMENTS TO TRUCK DRIVER VISION
By Matthew P. Reed, Daniel Blower, Michael J. Flannagan
University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute
UMTRI-2005-31
May 2006
https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/20427/dot_20427_DS1.pdf

--------------------------
 

ajdelange

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If that happens you stop the car and reboot, as I am sure you did.
Alas, no. As I said in my post what I did was drive an hour and a half into Montreal after waiting two weeks for an appointment and had the autopilot computer (into which all the cameras interface) replaced.
 

CyberDingo

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I think that cameras (for RVM) could be placed at the roof peak. Great view when reversing and if they could be also adjusted "out further" for when towing a wide / large trailer, would be great. In Oz we have to have mirrors (usually after market) that can see around any towed item.
 

Crissa

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I've never had my mirrors instantly become so occluded I couldn't use them.
I have. Aside mud, I've hd them freeze up. But regularly we get just the right amount of humidity that coming over the hill literally all exterior surfaces will fog up. The plastic cameras do quite well in that situation, actually.

-Crissa
 
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