Cybertruck reportedly getting better stainless steel material -- from 30X s.s. to 304L

[Crissa]

The Model 3 was meant to compete with a cheaper cars than it does. Tesla never called it luxury or near luxury or entry luxury or whatever.

-Crissa

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[192.168.1.1]

I've always heard YouTubers and reporters call it "30 times (x) cold rolled steel"... and I've always said that is wrong.

I felt like Elon didn't know what alloy he will use. I was happy on reveal day that there wasn't a 40X series stainless listed.. Like some appliances.. (some walmart "Stainless" bbq's). As long as it is nonmagnetic, I'm happy. Rust on [300 series] SS really is only a tarnish/surface. Never an issue in terms of durability. Just stay away from 400 series.. It's polished steel to look like stainless. Magnets don't lie.

Ive had 308 stainless steel in my pool for the last 15 years and it just has slight surface rust on it.. Nothing too major.

 

[charliemagpie]

We have a heavy SS Wok. Seems to me it's exactly 3mm thick.

If the CT is made of the same thing, it will never rust, it will never scratch.

If I ever need to, I can also use that Wok as a Nuclear shelter hat.

 

[HaulingAss]

This is... not a good video.

There's still no evidence that new steel plant is selling to SpaceX/Tesla. Their steel comes from a different company. Steel Dynamics has said they don't make that steel.

-Crissa

Steel Dynamics said they don't make cold-rolled stainless steel at that plant. That doesn't exclude the possibility that SpaceX is buying full soft (unhardened) stainless steel and cold-rolling it themselves after they have cut it to size and cut any details into it.

 

[HaulingAss]

Some time back, I saw one SS materials scientist note that it was unclear if “30X” was intended to place it in the 301-series of SS, or if instead the 30X was intended to modify the “cold-rolled” nomenclature

In any event, isn’t this olddddd news?

Yes, old news. The entire video didn't have a single shred of new information and is misleading and innaccurate when discussing the 30X stainless that Elon said it would be made from. All "30X" or "three-hundred-X" (when spoken) means is that it will be a 300 series stainless steel of a composition that doesn't fall into ANY existing designation. Because SpaceX invented it and had their supplier make it. It's a custom stainless steel of a proprietary composition. We do know that it has been toughened or hardened using the cold rolling process.

It will likely be close to a 304L alloy but small additions or changes in composition can have an outsized impact on properties (like corrosion, strength, etc. ) so we have no idea what it's properties will be in terms of corrosion and exact strength. It will also be cold-rolled so it won't be anything like your kitchen sink because kitchen sinks cannot be stamped from cold-rolled stainless steel (it's too hard).

 

[Crissa]

Steel Dynamics said they don't make cold-rolled stainless steel at that plant. That doesn't exclude the possibility that SpaceX is buying full soft (unhardened) stainless steel and cold-rolling it themselves after they have cut it to size and cut any details into it.

Except they don't have those tools and no one has spotted any rolls coming from steel dynamics. It's not like there aren't dozens of cameras on that facility 24-7.

-Crissa

 

[cvalue13]

cannot be stamped from cold-rolled stainless steel (it's too hard).

apparently, “hard” is the incorrect term - as it instead is too strong to be stamped:

“The first issue a sheet metal engineer has with this statement is the constant use of the word “hard”. The correct engineering term would be “strong”, as in strength or yield strength, to be more exact. A material that is “hard” is not necessarily strong, and a “hard” material may indeed have lower tensile strength than a “soft” material. The point is, the word “hard” (or soft) is the wrong way to
describe the strength of a material.

Hardness, in fact, is a separate property on its own and is measured on a hardness scale, which is entirely different from strength.”

it will be a 300 series stainless steel of a composition that doesn't fall into ANY existing designation. Because SpaceX invented it

If you say so, I really don’t know. to me, “30X” always seemed a bit more marketing-hype speak than some impressive language necessity due to superior engineering.

afterall, they’ve abandoned it back in 2020

I could take my F150, paint it like a rainbow and relocate the steering wheel to the tailgate then call it a “F15X, not falling into ANY existing designation, because I invented it.”

 

[Crissa]

apparently, “hard” is the incorrect term - as it instead is too strong to be stamped:

“The first issue a sheet metal engineer has with this statement is the constant use of the word “hard”. The correct engineering term would be “strong”, as in strength or yield strength, to be more exact. A material that is “hard” is not necessarily strong, and a “hard” material may indeed have lower tensile strength than a “soft” material. The point is, the word “hard” (or soft) is the wrong way to
describe the strength of a material.

Hardness, in fact, is a separate property on its own and is measured on a hardness scale, which is entirely different from strength.”



If you say so, I really don’t know. to me, “30X” always seemed a bit more marketing-hype speak than some impressive language necessity due to superior engineering.

afterall, they’ve abandoned it back in 2020

I could take my F150, paint it like a rainbow and relocate the steering wheel to the tailgate then call it a “F15X, not falling into ANY existing designation, because I invented it.”

If you were selling or configurating a series of trucks, it would be completely appropriate.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

apparently, “hard” is the incorrect term - as it instead is too strong to be stamped:

“The first issue a sheet metal engineer has with this statement is the constant use of the word “hard”. The correct engineering term would be “strong”, as in strength or yield strength, to be more exact. A material that is “hard” is not necessarily strong, and a “hard” material may indeed have lower tensile strength than a “soft” material. The point is, the word “hard” (or soft) is the wrong way to
describe the strength of a material.

Hardness, in fact, is a separate property on its own and is measured on a hardness scale, which is entirely different from strength.”

"Hardness" is the correct term. Cold-rolling the steel causes a work-hardening to happen. The more passes through the rollers, the more it is work-hardened and the harder the steel becomes. There are multiple grades of hardness with cold-rolled stainless steel and Elon didn't specify a particular hardness. It goes from full soft (not cold-rolled) to "full hard".

If you say so, I really don’t know. to me, “30X” always seemed a bit more marketing-hype speak than some impressive language necessity due to superior engineering.

afterall, they’ve abandoned it back in 2020

I didn't say it was superior engineering, I said they call it 30X series because it doesn't meet all the specs of any other recognized alloy that already has a defined designation. That's not marketing-hype speak, that's simply language and how you talk about an alloy that doesn't have an official designation that is recognized by the industry.

It sounds like the alloy it's closest to is 304L (but they cannot accurately call it 304L if the alloy is not consistent with 304L). They might call it that for shorthand informally, but that doesn't make it 304L. And, no, Tesla did not abandon the alloy, at least not that they have let us know.

I could take my F150, paint it like a rainbow and relocate the steering wheel to the tailgate then call it a “F15X, not falling into ANY existing designation, because I invented it.”

Good for you. If it's important to you, I encourage you to do it. No one else will care.

 

[CyberOwl]

Rubbish post

 

[RVAC]

Yes, old news. The entire video didn't have a single shred of new information and is misleading and innaccurate when discussing the 30X stainless that Elon said it would be made from. All "30X" or "three-hundred-X" (when spoken) means is that it will be a 300 series stainless steel of a composition that doesn't fall into ANY existing designation. Because SpaceX invented it and had their supplier make it. It's a custom stainless steel of a proprietary composition. We do know that it has been toughened or hardened using the cold rolling process.

It will likely be close to a 304L alloy but small additions or changes in composition can have an outsized impact on properties (like corrosion, strength, etc. ) so we have no idea what it's properties will be in terms of corrosion and exact strength. It will also be cold-rolled so it won't be anything like your kitchen sink because kitchen sinks cannot be stamped from cold-rolled stainless steel (it's too hard).

Exactly, it's their own spin on 304L. The steel that SpaceX receives at Boca Chica for Starship production is also marked 304L.

 

[cvalue13]

If you were selling or configurating a series of trucks, it would be completely appropriate.

-Crissa

like I said - marketing

all I meant to sloppily emphasize was that at times it seems like people have taken the “30X” to mean something more revolutionary than a nomenclature technicality (eg simply needing a different designation due to being a different alloy)

"Hardness" is the correct term. Cold-rolling the steel causes a work-hardening to happen. The more passes through the rollers, the more it is work-hardened and the harder the steel becomes. There are multiple grades of hardness with cold-rolled stainless steel and Elon didn't specify a particular hardness. It goes from full soft (not cold-rolled) to "full hard".

I’m talking out of my bailiwick here, as in my post above I was only quoting this company - which is in the business of modeling/simulating the formation and stamping of stainless steel and design of presses that do the same

If I understand their post correctly, according to them while cold-rolling is sometimes called “work-hardening” the steel, the main metallurgical quality being changed by cold-rolling for the purposes of steel being used in these applications is increasing its “Strength”- (both yield strength and tensile strength) the maximum tensile stress the material can handle before permanent deformation occurs (distinct from “hardness,” which is the material’s resistance to localized surface deformation, like abrasion/friction resistance).

roughly, it seems as though “Strength” is defined as the ability to withstand an applied load without permanent deformation/failure while “Hardness” is defined as the ability to resist localized deformation (particularly surface deformation like abrasion) …. with cold-rolling metallurgically improving the former, such that the more cold rolling is performed the more the steel’s yield strength approaches its tensile strength.

that said, cold-rolling also improves hardness as the two are related - but I found this cool little comparison example of the relative improvements by cold-rolling:

Going back then to quote I posted from the people who model ss and its presses, I take their point to be roughly: when Musk and others talk about the “30X” being exceptionally “hard” (eg when Musk says it would break the presses), they’re not actually referring to the metallurgical property of “hardness” (ie its susceptibility to localized deformation and abrasion) to but instead to its “strength” (ie its susceptibility to permanent deformation/failure) - and that in the context of talking about qualities that make it difficult to stamp/form ss , one is speaking of its strength quality not its hardness quality

that all said, I’m mostly reciting outloud what I’m reading/learning from elsewhere for purposes of coming to a better understanding of it myself - sounds like you have a view possibly to the contrary

And, no, Tesla did not abandon the alloy, at least not that they have let us know.

I mean, in 2019 he announced they were using “30X” but within a year he was publicly saying they allot they were using was changing from what he announced

so one can either take that one or two ways:

(1) “30X” described some specific alloy, which Elon has since said they have changed and so are no longer using that specific alloy, or

(2) “30X” was intended only to be a general description like “we’re going to use some alloy” in which case it was never specific, and continues to be subject to change, and there was never “the alloy”

either way

 

[RMK!]

It's good to know there are soo many power users of the Google machine. Who needs an edumacation when you can be an instant expert in anything including material science. It's like instant coffee, half the taste for virtually no effort.

Carry on my wayward sons ...

 

[hridge2020]

How are you supposed to read the back if your eyes are being irritated?

Can you SEE this? lol

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