Dealership model vs. direct sales?

[CyberGus]

Yes?


Ugh. I was just pointing out their attention is capricious and selective. It's a bit difficult to get service or buy something at all when you get ignored.

-Crissa

The only time salespeople in stores attempt to bother me is when I have shields up: talking on the phone, wearing headphones, etc.

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[TruckDaddy]

My "favorite" time at a dealership was when I had decided on a particular model, and had mapped out my entire day to get to 5 different dealerships to check availability, and figure price difference between asking and trade-in, and negotiate from there.
The very first dealer took my keys to get an evaluation of my trade, then acted like they couldn't give me a cost difference for over 30 minutes. I said, "You can call me with your # for trading, but I have a few other places to make it to today."

They absolutely refused to give me my keys back. I was livid. I made it abundantly clear that they were making me angry. I guess they thought the longer they kept me at their store would increase the chance of me buying.

 

[John K]

Since I am such a giving person, if you miss the dealership experience, I can tack on a $50,000 surcharge, payable to me, when your reservation is fulfilled.

I do this because I care. I even offer a free pen, for $50.00.

 

[Dusty]

My "favorite" time at a dealership was when . . . The very first dealer took my keys to get an evaluation of my trade. . . They absolutely refused to give me my keys back. . .

That's the shit that makes me have no sympathy for dealerships. How shitty are they when that seems like a normal "technique" that you do to someone. And they know it's common so they all say the same thing when you walk out, "Ooook. If you think you'll get a better deal..." Because they know at best you'll find more bullshit because it the standard, not the exception. Pressure sales is a shitty profession and I have very little compassion for people who do it.

Service centers are due for an industry overhaul and should start to migrate away from dealers anyway. And, if you know anyone who is a technician you should talk them into either starting their own private shop that uses experimental customer service like on-site service, or get certified in EVs. Legacy auto makers and dealerships are 5 years from a paradigm shift.

 

[CyberGus]

The very first dealer took my keys to get an evaluation of my trade, then acted like they couldn't give me a cost difference for over 30 minutes. I said, "You can call me with your # for trading, but I have a few other places to make it to today."

They absolutely refused to give me my keys back. I was livid. I made it abundantly clear that they were making me angry. I guess they thought the longer they kept me at their store would increase the chance of me buying.

For my first new-car buying experience, they played the same game with me, only they “lost” my keys and kept me for hours.

While waiting, they thought it would be fun to press the hard-sell. “Cut you a deal?? You want me to take food out my childrens’ mouths?” asked the salesman whose watch was worth more than the car I was buying.
“Better your kids than mine” I deadpanned.

It’s fun to watch a narcissist have a hissy-fit. They brought me a new salesman, but in vain.

 

[Ogre]

For my first new-car buying experience, they played the same game with me, only they “lost” my keys and kept me for hours.

While waiting, they thought it would be fun to press the hard-sell. “Cut you a deal?? You want me to take food out my childrens’ mouths?” asked the salesman whose watch was worth more than the car I was buying.
“Better your kids than mine” I deadpanned.

It’s fun to watch a narcissist have a hissy-fit. They brought me a new salesman, but in vain.

I’m surprised that you didn’t kill the first salesperson and feed him to your kids. Polar bears aren’t known for restraint.

 

[ÆCIII]

Many knows what I think about the 'dealership' model. But for those who don't know, below is my drafted reply to a post about the Silverado EV:

Whatever the price of a Silverado EV (say $70,000 or whatever), you can be assured nearly half of that is distributed in dealership margins, expensive advertising, manufacturer margins, and unions - so they actually spent about 35K or less on the actual truck and everyone knows by now that the likes of GM or other legacy are very good by now at making something cheap 'look good'.​

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I'm really not impressed with the GM pouch battery implementations either but it's because they really have no choice. I see them having lower energy density and range, with possible thermal management issues, but time will tell. Of course GM tries to glamorize it by giving it a gimmick brand name of 'Ultrium' or something, but really intelligent people should be able to see right through that. One of the tell-tale negatives I see is that they're implementing it in a 'Hummer EV' as one of their first models. But when you look at it weighing over 9,000 lbs with still only a little over 300 miles range, it's obvious to me GM just wanted to hide lower tech inside of a large chassis platform, while promoting it with glamourous advertising. But that's a lot of weight, and when you get to that much weight needing a 200 plus Kwh battery, your cost per mile gets up there with some small ICE cars, because you are having to use much more electricity compared to any Tesla.​

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I see the Silverado likely being about 2/3 as expensive to operate, which is better but with the other aspects of GM's business model and political entanglements - simply NO.​

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While I was once supportive to the big three auto makers for decades, the dealership shenanigans stench and gluttonous overhead costs totally obliterated any faith I ever had in them. Accepting inherent redistribution of your money, to dealerships and advertising companies as something normal just thinking it's 'indirect costs' or something - is the same as accepting a communist redistribution of your money as something normal too.​

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I currently accept neither and never will.​

-ÆCIII

 

[SwampNut]

I got an email from one dealer saying that they have been trying to call me for days and don't seem to have a number that actually reaches me. They asked for my real number. I had already told them that I'd decided not to buy, so I responded with, "no." They said that was not fair. LOL!

 

[Crissa]

GM dealers get about 3% of a sticker price car and GM spends about $400 per car on advertising. At least according to Google.

That's quite far from '35%'.

And estimating out the weight and price from a prestige brand like Hummer onto the Silverado which will have a uni-body design using the next gen GM batteries is kinda fruitless. Even small steps like going from 18650s to 2170s had a pretty notable affect upon range and weight.

-Crissa

 

[SwampNut]

Red is advertising, orange is R&D.

https://stockapps.com/wp-content/up...est-randd-per-car-sold-at-dollar2984.png.webp

 

[Ogre]

And estimating out the weight and price from a prestige brand like Hummer onto the Silverado which will have a uni-body design using the next gen GM batteries is kinda fruitless. Even small steps like going from 18650s to 2170s had a pretty notable affect upon range and weight.

I’m mostly with you.

But I wanted to point out that the lopsided pricing on the Hummer is as much about the fact that it’s one of the few EVs out there then the fact that it’s a Hummer. The Mach E seems to be getting pretty big premiums in some places too.

So long as EVs are in short supply, EV prices will be ratcheted up. Tesla is doing it too, just on the front end. Ford/ GM seems like there is significant chance for a whoopsie surprise after you’ve ordered.

That whoopsie surprise is fundamentally what bothers people most. Even if it’s not anywhere near 35%, a 10% surprise increase would be infuriating. Look at how defensive we get when people mention bumps in the Cybertruck pricing.

 

[Sirfun]

I’m mostly with you.

But I wanted to point out that the lopsided pricing on the Hummer is as much about the fact that it’s one of the few EVs out there then the fact that it’s a Hummer. The Mach E seems to be getting pretty big premiums in some places too.

So long as EVs are in short supply, EV prices will be ratcheted up. Tesla is doing it too, just on the front end. Ford/ GM seems like there is significant chance for a whoopsie surprise after you’ve ordered.

That whoopsie surprise is fundamentally what bothers people most. Even if it’s not anywhere near 35%, a 10% surprise increase would be infuriating. Look at how defensive we get when people mention bumps in the Cybertruck pricing.

You're right. People don't like surprise price increases.
A perfect example of surprise price increases infuriating people was the surprise that Rivian announced last month.

 

[Zabhawkin]

They absolutely refused to give me my keys back. I was livid. I made it abundantly clear that they were making me angry. I guess they thought the longer they kept me at their store would increase the chance of me buying.

Happened to me and my wife several years ago. They refused to give us our keys, and physically blocked us from exiting the cubicle. I had made it clear to everyone in the building with my yell over running jet engines voice that we were done, we were leaving, and we wanted our keys with the promise of violence in my posture, our keys appeared as my phone came out to call 911 and they got out of the way.

I don't understand how they can get someone that mad and still think they have a sale.

Seriously I was going to inform the police my location a brief description of the problem and if they were still no letting us leave I was going to go through people.

And the thing is if they had not gone for the hard sale and the kidnapping and let us think about it for a couple of days we probably would have bought a car from them.

 

[SwampNut]

I don't understand how they can get someone that mad and still think they have a sale.

Intimidation must work on some number. I once had this towering, built bald black dude (race will be relevant) lean over me and actually yell at me that payments are all that matter, and I need to stop focusing on the details. I only talk OTD numbers, ever. This does not work for scumbags trying to hide fees by pushing your payments out from 48 months to 52. He actually said to me that I'd never survive in HIS hood with his bros.

I've also walked out of a finance dude's office and yelled on the floor, "CAN SOMEONE GET ME A FINANCE MANAGER WHO ISN'T A LYING WEASEL BEFORE I LEAVE??"

He actually did look like a weasel.

 

[Ogre]

Intimidation must work on some number. I once had this towering, built bald black dude (race will be relevant) lean over me and actually yell at me that payments are all that matter, and I need to stop focusing on the details. I only talk OTD numbers, ever. This does not work for scumbags trying to hide fees by pushing your payments out from 48 months to 52. He actually said to me that I'd never survive in HIS hood with his bros.

I've also walked out of a finance dude's office and yelled on the floor, "CAN SOMEONE GET ME A FINANCE MANAGER WHO ISN'T A LYING WEASEL BEFORE I LEAVE??"

He actually did look like a weasel.

What is truly terrible is how common these things are. If you’ve bought more than one car, you’ve probably had a bad car purchase experience.

Speaks to how pervasive the culture in the industry is. It isn’t just a bunch of independent assholes, it is a culture and incentive structure which rewards these tactics.

It is institutionalizes douchebaggery. This is why Costco auto and AAA auto purchase programs exist. It is why people who buy a Tesla are so much happier with the purchase. Being able to buy your car at home, spend the time to think about exactly what options you want and are willing to pay for, and select them at your leisure is incredibly freeing.

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