Does an EV really save you money? Cybertruck vs Ram Diesel Comparison

[M0unt41nm4n]

I think the video is somewhat location specific. First, he has a RAM. Those are notorious for ridiculous oil change costs due to the fuel filter which IMHO is insane. They started that crap back in 2015. My F350 gets a dealer oil change (plus tire rotation) for about $250. At a Jiffy Lube its under $150.

Comparison of the diesel truck price to the CT is interesting as well. Do we consider the CT (AWD or Beast) a luxury truck? if so, the $ comparison is off. Ram Laramie Longhorns and F350 Platinums run at $100K. I so consider the CT a luxury vehicle, so I think its price equates well with top of the line diesel trucks.

Fuel in California is also notoriously high. Diesel in my neck of the woods is about $3.50/gallon. But let's additionally talk about electricity. ComEd is expensive (at least from what my friends say). My electricity if on a timed program (at night) is .065/KWh. That is crazy cheap. Going round trip from Durango, CO to Moab, UT normal costs me about $65-$85 in diesel. At the .065 rates, I calculated my trip in a CT at about $14. Since I used a Super Charger in Moab, that price shot up to about $30. That difference is significant for where I live. I currently have solar in my Moab house. In theory that reverse trip should cost me $0, for a total of about $7 round trip. So the costs in the video is a guy who uses THE MOST EXPENSIVE electricity (a Super Charger) and some home charging. In the not too distant future, my use of Super Chargers will only be for vacations and long road trips. The prices are exorbitant when you have access to cheap electricity at home.

OP is spot on with maintenance. Thats an area where it really shines because he didn't take into account all fluid flushes, transmission flushes, belts/chains requiring maintenance, ERG cleaning (at about 67.5K in his RAM) which is about $1,500.00, 12v battery x 2 replacement after 2-4 years, much more frequent brake/rotor repair, and suspension replacement (shocks). He didn't even scratch the surface on that one.

In a nut shell, due to his location, he pays more overall costs for both the EV and the ICE. He can mitigate some of that with charging at home and maybe installing solar. His ICE can be a bit cheaper if he gets rid of the RAM for oil changes and chooses another diesel that doesn't have a requirement for a $200 fuel filter. But the maintenance costs will swamp it all. Bottom line, the EV is off the charts cheaper overall to maintain. I think his numbers didn't show more of the realities of a diesel vs the CT.

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[firsttruck]

I think the maintenance and repair costs for your pickup were much lower than what most owners of diesel heavy duty pickup experience. You only had 21 months of ownership of RAM 3500 while most cost of ownership studies try to estimate costs for at least minimum of 5 years.
Year 1 & 2 repair costs are probably $0 (or very low) because 2022/2023 vehicle hopefully would have most repairs covered by the new vehicle warranty. Also as another poster commented, diesel emission system (DEF, DPF) repairs can be costly.

Below are average maintenance and repair costs for some similar full-size pickups (diesel & gas).

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Cost of Car Ownership
Calculate the Cost of Owning a Car
The Edmunds Inc. True Cost to Own (TCO) pricing system calculates the additional costs you may not have included when considering your next vehicle purchase. These extra costs include: depreciation, interest on your loan, taxes and fees, insurance premiums, fuel costs, maintenance, and repairs. Search here to view the TCO of any vehicle.
https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html

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Maintenance
This is the estimated expense of the two types of maintenance: scheduled and unscheduled. Scheduled maintenance is the performance of factory-recommended items at periodic mileage or calendar intervals. Unscheduled maintenance includes wheel alignment and the replacement of items such as the battery, brakes, headlights, hoses, exhaust system parts, taillight/turn signal bulbs, tires and wiper blades/inserts. Estimated tire replacement costs are supplied to Edmunds by The Tire Rack Inc.

Repairs
This is the estimated expense for repairs not covered by the vehicle manufacturer's warranties over the five years from the date of purchase, assuming 15,000 miles are driven annually. We estimate this expense based on the cost of a typical "zero deductible" extended warranty for the vehicle, minus the estimated amount of that cost that consists of the warranty provider's overhead and profit.

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$87,510 MSRP 2024 Ram 2500 Heavy Duty Limited 4dr Crew Cab 4WD ( Turbodiesel 6cyl 6.7L )
https://www.edmunds.com/ram/2500/2024/crew-cab/

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Edmunds Total 5-Year Ownership Costs - 2021 Ram 2500 Cost to Own
https://www.edmunds.com/ram/2500/2021/cost-to-own/?style=401859199

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Edmunds Total 5-Year Ownership Costs - 2020 Ford F-250 Limited 4dr CrewCab 4WD (diesel)
https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-250-super-duty/2020/cost-to-own/?style=401827690

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Edmunds Total 5-Year TCO - 2023 Ford F-150 Platinum 4dr SuperCrew 4WD 6.5ft bed ( gas 5.0L 8cyl 10A)
Year 1 & 2 repair costs are probably $0 (or very low) because 2023 vehicle hopefully would have most repairs covered by the new vehicle warranty.
https://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/2023/cost-to-own/?style=401955515

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Cost to Own - Used 2021 Ram 3500 Crew Cab Limited 4dr 4WD
https://www.edmunds.com/ram/3500/2021/cost-to-own/?style=401859202

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Diesel pickup trucks have small versions of emissions DEF fluid, DPF systems.


School Transportation News - Bus Total Cost of Ownership - diesel vs gas or propane
March 1, 2018
https://stnonline.com/partner-updates/maintaining-your-budget/

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Propane and gasoline buses have an average of 15 fewer emissions-reducing parts than their diesel counterparts. These parts on diesel buses are only in place to make sure the emissions produced meet air quality regulations. From DEF fluid, DPF filters to turbochargers — it adds up to thousands of dollars in replacement parts, and even higher maintenance costs. You won’t find these parts on a propane or gasoline bus, because they simply do not need them!

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Routine Maintenance — The Fuel Type makes a Difference
Every bus has a routine maintenance schedule that is adhered to in order to keep the bus running properly. Certain manufacturers will build-in maintenance schedules that coincide with your district or company’s typical maintenance plan. For example, Blue Bird’s diesel buses have the largest DEF tanks in the industry at 15 gallons, which better coincides with routine maintenance intervals. The fuel type makes a difference here, too. Because the fuel runs cleaner, there is less oil changed in propane and gasoline buses when compared to a diesel bus. Plus, there are fewer components to maintain because these alternatively-fueled buses do not have DEF, DPF filters, turbo chargers—not to mention those sensors! These differences make your maintenance costs per year roughly 50 percent less than a diesel bus of the same model year. In fact, the average Blue Bird propane bus saves districts $800-$1000 per year in maintenance costs alone (yes, this is just for one bus).

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Appeals court: Ford committed fraud by selling defective Super Duty trucks
2020 Oct
By Phoebe Wall Howard of Detroit Free Press
https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...-l-diesel-engine-costs-ford-again/3626782001/

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In Margeson's case, the Court of Appeal in California on Sept. 22 upheld the Los Angeles County Superior Court jury verdict that found Ford acted with malice, oppression or fraud by deliberately concealing known defects in its Power Stroke diesel engine. The engine was made by Navistar and used primarily in Super Duty trucks for model years 2003-07.

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[wshunter]

I go to gas stations all the time

They sell beer

Sadly, the one near us doesn’t sell beer, but it has an ATM and good corn dogs.

 

[ldiebel]

I had a quick look at the video, seems like he's doing a reasonable comparison.
There are so many factors though.

A big one to me is whether you need to routinely supercharge.
The cost per kwh when supercharging is 34 to 50 cents or so. Could be more, I haven't seen less than that lately (used to be 24 cents).
Where I am in Florida, we pay about 12 cents per kwh at home, so about 1/3 of the lowest supercharger price.
My daily routine does not require any supercharging (anything less that 250 miles or so), I can just charge at home, so my energy cost is much less than someone that has to supercharge.
This is a plus for the time issue as well, I spend only a few seconds plugging and unplugging my EV.
An ICE will always include some time spent at a gas station refueling (even if you were there any way to pick up beer, I don't drink, but that post sure made me laugh!)

I also have about 15 kw of solar power. On a good day, I can make about 80 kwh.
In the summer time, I use all the power I can generate running air conditioning, so I typically don't have any left to supplement my EV requirements. In this case I'm paying for my EV energy, but only 12 cents per kwh.

In the winter, when not running the A/C, I do have extra. For days and even weeks at a time I can get my EV power for free, or mostly free. Depends on how sunny the days are.

At this point, mostly, I just LOVE our Cybertruck. In truth, I must admit, that's the biggest factor.
I like thinking about all this other stuff so I feel smarter that I really am.

My 2 cents anyway.

 

[CyberGus]

Sadly, the one near us doesn’t sell beer, but it has an ATM and good corn dogs.

I find that gas station food generally provides you with... gas

 

[Ward L]

I boil it down to cost equivalent gas mileage. 40 MPG = $5 Cost of gas x 1,000 / 400 WHM / $0.32 per kWh for California. When people ask about Mr. CT, I usualy mention it gets the equivalent of about 40 MPG. Colorado might be 3.5 x 1,000 / 400 / 0.065 = 135 MPG. It is funny, some people want to think they can justify a new vehicle because it get’s better gas mileage. That has essentially never been the case. Cars are just expensive. Many people think the cost of the car is just the “monthly payment”. That is another crazy way to consider the cost of a car.

 

[firsttruck]

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Ford F-150 deep dive: The cost of owning gas vs. electric trucks
August 25, 2022
By Jill Ciminillo
https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2022/08/ford-f-150-deep-dive-the-cost-of-owning-gas-vs-electric-trucks/

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Maintenance costs
This is where things get interesting. We pulled the maintenance schedules from the owners’ manuals of both the Lightning and regular F-150, and to keep things equal, we went to a Nebraska Ford dealer and asked for associated costs. But even without looking at the prices, it’s easy to see the Lightning will cost less to maintain because it requires less regular maintenance overall. Specifically, there are 30k, 60k, 100k and 150k mileage maintenance items for the gas F-150 that just aren’t needed on the Lightning.

So, over 10 years, you’re looking at $1,352 in scheduled maintenance for the Lightning versus $4,188 for the gas F-150.

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Top Ten TCO: Half-Ton Pickups
May 30, 2024 • By Chris Brown
https://www.automotive-fleet.com/10222394/top-ten-tco-half-ton-pickups

TCO Observations
Sorting and evaluating the data in various ways, here’s what we found:

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* An all-electric model, the Ford F-150 Lightning Pro Supercrew 4WD, has the second-lowest overall TCO, driven by the lowest fuel and maintenance costs and middle-of-the-pack initial cost and depreciation. However, the other six electric model configurations for the F-150 Lightning and Silverado EV do not fare as well. Their higher overall TCO is due to higher-than-average initial costs and even higher depreciation.

* Not surprisingly, all-electric trucks return the lowest fuel/power costs. Hybrid models follow, followed by V-6 twin turbos. Diesel models are middle of the pack, hurt by higher pump prices.

* On average, gas engines return better overall TCO than configurations than the 78 configurations with diesel engines.

* On average, the diesel engine configurations produce the highest maintenance costs.

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[tmeyer3]

In the not too distant future, my use of Super Chargers will only be for vacations and long road trips.

Exactly this. Since my major solar and battery home overhaul in 2020, (also situational to me) my model 3 charges 92% of the time at home over 150k miles based on the Tesla app. Factoring that in between daily usage and the exorbitant cost of CA gas for an equally luxury truck, I get the following "savings" from the CT in gas alone over 200k miles:

to account for only home charging that's free:
$4.50/gallon x (200,000 miles / 15 mpg) x 92% == $55,200
To account for super charger miles:
[$0.32/kWh x (200,000 miles x .400 kWh/mile) x 8%] == $2048

I'm saving $55200-$2048 = $53,150 in gas alone over 200k miles.... I'm my situation, CT isn't so expensive now, not even including maintenance difference which are significant over the same number of miles, but harder to calculate.

Edit: wanted to clarify. These savigns do not justify a $100k truck. At my point in life, I'm going to buy a luxury truck regardless (also situational to me). As far as I'm concered, had I purchased a luxury F150 Platinum for $90k, the effective cost+gas over 200k miles is an additional $60k for a total ownership of $150k. In contrast to the FS CT for an effective ownership cost of $100k with $2k average supercharger costs... In my situation, that makes the CT nearly $50k cheaper over it's life.

 

[Outdoors]

Yeah I have found that when I charge via solar I have more money for beer. Since solar is all I got. I found that my belly has grown. So have number my friends. So much beer to pass around on these hot summer days.

 

[Pulaski]

I find that gas station food generally provides you with... gas

If they ain't got roller dogs, I'm rollin' by.

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