Does Ford Have an EV demand issue?

[GlockandRoll]

I'd trust something from GM a lot more than Ford, just from an engineering perspective.

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[CyberGus]

Proud to be part of the "Greeiest Generation"

 

[PilotPete]

Do you know the difference between a new car dealership and a sleezy used car dealer? The age of the cars, period. New car dealerships are just the accepted method of application of the Tusser phrase "A fool and his money are soon parted." Or to put it another way, the dealership is there to extract the most money from their customers. And those that need the most help with their finances, are the ones most negatively affected and (dare I say) HARMED by the deanship model as it stands today. So the uneducated, below average, typically poor, are the ones with the least ability to see the games being played, or to have excellent negotiating skills. They get flat out screwed. People with significantly higher education, with a better understanding of finances, with more experience in negotiations, with financial advisers and/or attorneys involved, are harmed the least.

Oh yeah, that's fair.

 

[firsttruck]

That graphic is complete bullshit & bold faced LIE!.

The supposed "greatest generation" had much higher union membership participation than the current generation.

There were way more strikes during 1940s, 1950s.

-----------------------------

This Day in Labor History: May 23, 1950
By Erik Loomis / On May 23, 2018
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/05/day-labor-history-may-23-1950

.....
The late 1940s saw a series of battles between the UAW and the auto companies over what the postwar economy would look like, which happened in other industries as well. In November 1945, the UAW went on strike against General Motors, demanding a 30 percent raise without the company raising car prices. This was a response to the fact that workers had received a pretty raw deal during World War II, with prices rising faster than wages and the National War Labor Board fairly ineffective at solving these problems.

......
With the economy booming by the late 40s, the UAW had a lot of leverage. So the companies began caving on these issues. In 1949, Ford simply agreed to cover the entire cost of pensions, just to avoid another strike. When Chrysler refused to cover all the money itself, Reuther led the UAW off the job for 104 days. Chrysler gave in after losing $1 billion.


-----------------------------

This Day in Labor History: On April 7, 1947, telephone operators for the major phone companies walked off the job. This action was the precursor to the formation of the Communication Workers of America, one of the most important unions in the nation today.

--------------------------

This Day in Labor History: On July 15, 1959, the United Steelworkers of America went on strike to protect its significant victories won after World War II in running the shop floor and empowering its members to live a middle-class lifestyle.

--------------------------

 

[firsttruck]

The "greatest generation" even striked during WWII over being able to smoke on the job!!

The General Motors army tank factory didn't even have a union yet! non-union factory

---------------------

This Day in Labor History: June 15, 1942
By Erik Loomis / On June 15, 2022
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2022/06/this-day-in-labor-history-june-15-1942

On June 15, 1942, workers at a General Motors factory engaged in a wildcat strike to protest new policies that forbade them from smoking on the job. While this may seem like an odd incident, it actually shines quite a light on working class culture in the mid-twentieth century and conditions on the shop floor in a situation where unions were new and the nation was at war.

One might not think of smoking as a major issue in labor history. But it played a sizable role in twentieth century work culture. As everyone knows, a lot of people smoked during these years. For many companies, very much including the auto industry, banning workers from smoking was a normal thing to do. For one thing, they could start fires with their thrown away cigarettes; in fact, this was how the National Association of Manufacturers attempted to justify the Triangle Fire. Managers believed smoking distracted workers from concentrating on their jobs and the rise of scientific management made issues of control over work culture very important to the managerial class.

But of course employers themselves smoked. It might be in their offices, but they smoked. And the workers knew it. They seethed over this. It was hypocrisy.

.....
The GM Fisher Body tank manufacturing plant in Grand Blanc, Michigan, just outside of Flint, was a brand new facility. In fact, it was so new that it was not even officially unionized yet. But when it opened in the spring of 1942, many of the workers were UAW members transferring over from the other Fisher facilities, including the spot of the foundational moment of the UAW, the site of the Flint Sit-Down Strike in 1937. The company pushed hard to enforce the smoking ban in the new factory. The workers were not having it. The organized action started with the welders, who demanded two five-minute smoke breaks per shift. The workers started intentionally smoking all at the same time to challenge the company. GM responded by writing them all up for violations. On June 15, the welders all left their job at the same time, walked outside, and lit up. When they came back in, managers suspended them all for three days.

Outraged, the workers in the plant almost all walked out on a collective wildcat strike. About 80 percent of the workers had enough and left their jobs. Remember that in World War II, strikes were not supposed to happen.

.....
smoking remained a major issue in the plants. Moreover, in plants that had long-accepted smoking rights, GM sought to end them. The situation was similar at Ford, which sought to push back on unionization by busting workers for smoking. Fired workers there led to another smoking strike in 1944. There were smoking strikes in Virginia during the war as well. The last known smoking strike took place in 1946 in Alabama.

 

[firsttruck]

Investopedia - The History of Unions in the United States
Milestones in the struggle to protect workers' rights
Updated September 01, 2022
By Ronni Sandroff
Reviewed by Michael J Boyle
https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0113/the-history-of-unions-in-the-united-states.aspx


.....
The Rise of Labor Unions in the U.S.
Labor unions have existed in the United States since the birth of the country

.....
The first recorded instance of a worker strike in America occurred in 1768 when journeymen tailors protested a wage reduction. In 1794, Philadelphia shoemakers formed a union called the Federal Society of Journeymen Cordwainers; its establishment marked the beginning of sustained trade union organization in the U.S.

.....
Union power and membership reached a high point in the U.S. during the 1940s and 1950s.

.....
The end of WWII saw a wave of strikes in many industries; union power and membership (as a percent of employment) reached a high point during this period, from the 1940s to the 1950s.
The AFL merged with the CIO–becoming the AFL-CIO in 1955–in order to influence policies that would impact the American labor force.

 

[PilotPete]

No, inflation and you have apples and oranges in your same basket.

I've been on both sides of Union negotiations. There are positives and negatives for ALL sides with ?Unions v non-union. Any manager that doesn't agree is either myopic, or not completely honest. Any worker who doesn't agree is the same. Many believe companies that get Unions are the ones that deserve them. Many times that is right. I believe it is outside a true safety related business. Once you move into the realm of life/death vs. dollars, the Union takes on a different basic role (or it should). This includes on the job safety, and jobs centered on safety.

Economics on the grand scale are very complex, and at the same time, quite simple. Your job dictates your place in the economic hierarchy of society. Getting paid more doesn't change that. There is a balance. Too long a discussion for here.

 

[HaulingAss]

Ford and GM are going bankrupt with or without the unions. They are incapable of manufacturing efficiently. Yes, the unions could speed it up a bit, and then the government will feel like they have more responsibility to bail them out. That's probably the plan. Controlled destruction.

 

[PilotPete]

Ford and GM are going bankrupt with or without the unions. They are incapable of manufacturing efficiently. Yes, the unions could speed it up a bit, and then the government will feel like they have more responsibility to bail them out. That's probably the plan. Controlled destruction.

 

[Diehard]

I was thinking the same before I bought my Lightning. I still do. Not because my dealership experience was awful. In fact it went very smoothly but I had to spend a ridiculous amount of time online to make sure I don't get screwed. All else being equal, I would jump at CT or Rivian in a heart beat.

I worked for Ford for years, and bought several on A-plan for myself and family while there. We all had problems of one sort or another. Years later, after the memory of the mechanical problems had faded, I ordered a 2015 Mustang Ecoboost premium with the performance package. I loved the car, the way it handled and looked and drove, but the damned thing spent 2 months in the shop out of the 1st 8 I owned it so I lemon flawed it. The lemon law group, who represented me, said Ford keeps their lights on and is responsible for the bulk of their business. Not long after that, a friend bought a Shelby GT350 and Ford put 3 engines in it before buying it back. My brother-in-law lemon flawed his Raptor, and they also bought back my friend's F150.

You would have to be insane to buy an EV from Ford, in my opinion.

I am the insane person you are talking about. In fact, during my younger years, I was a technician and was on the road a lot and what I saw confirmed Found On Road Dead reputation. There was a disproportionately high number of Fords broken down. My first car was a Ford that had among other things transmission problem. Never touched a Ford after that but I wanted an EV truck and Ford was the first one that offered it to me at a much lower price than I could get from anyone else. I figured Electric Motors are much harder to screw up than ICE engines and There is not a complicated transmission either so what the heck, lets roll the dice. I am still in my first year at the edge of my seat but so far, it has been great. It seems like a very high likelihood of screw ups in software but mechanically, it has been rock solid so far. Then again, less than 100K is too early to judge reliability. I will report back later.

 

[GlockandRoll]

I was thinking the same before I bought my Lightning. I still do. Not because my dealership experience was awful. In fact it went very smoothly but I had to spend a ridiculous amount of time online to make sure I don't get screwed. All else being equal, I would jump at CT or Rivian in a heart beat.



I am the insane person you are talking about. In fact, during my younger years, I was a technician and was on the road a lot and what I saw confirmed Found On Road Dead reputation. There was a disproportionately high number of Fords broken down. My first car was a Ford that had among other things transmission problem. Never touched a Ford after that but I wanted an EV truck and Ford was the first one that offered it to me at a much lower price than I could get from anyone else. I figured Electric Motors are much harder to screw up than ICE engines and There is not a complicated transmission either so what the heck, lets roll the dice. I am still in my first year at the edge of my seat but so far, it has been great. It seems like a very high likelihood of screw ups in software but mechanically, it has been rock solid so far. Then again, less than 100K is too early to judge reliability. I will report back later.

Agreed, and sorry for venting my frustration. Those wounds are still healing. It was a hassle having a brand new car spend 2 months in the shop out of the 1st 8 months of ownership.

I do like the way the lightning looks, much better than a Rivian anyway

 

[kbolt]

Just to be clear, they dropped the prices of CCS vehicles to combat the Osbourne effect of producing NACS vehicles next year, right?

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