akcoyote

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Several good points made previously in this topic.

What seems to have been missed is that Tesla will make an adaptor for use at US superchargers. Weather the adaptor will be provided at SC locations or non-Tesla owners will have to buy one has not been stated.

I think the big problem/issue that has not been discussed by Tesla will be the changes to Tesla's app and how non-Tesla owners will pay for their use of the SC network. Elon has at various times stated that Tesla has always been open to sharing the SC network, but other manufacturers have not been willing to discuss it. In my opinion other EV makers are too lazy to develop/invest in a charging network to make their EVs more attractive to potential customers - basically most still do not want to sell EVs.
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jerhenderson

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Teslas aren't more expensive? They sure seem to be when you look at the prices.
when you look at an ICE price, factor in a much shorter lifespan, fuel and repair costs. what vehicle is more expensive?
 

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What seems to have been missed is that Tesla will make an adaptor for use at US superchargers. Weather the adaptor will be provided at SC locations or non-Tesla owners will have to buy one has not been stated.
I don't think there will be adapters. If you look at the adapters available currently they won't handle more than about 50 kW. I think Tesla will add a second cord as they do in Europe and as the other DC fast charges do.

I think the big problem/issue that has not been discussed by Tesla will be the changes to Tesla's app and how non-Tesla owners will pay for their use of the SC network.
Tesla has a Plug and charge system in place that works. IEC is working on Plug and Charge. Thus Tesla, in agreeing to accept other OEMs into their system has a choice of either telling those OEMs they will have to use the Tesla system or that they can follow the IEC system, when it is finally approved, but will have to either develop the interface between the IEC system and Tesla or pay Tesla to do it. Hence there should be no changes to the Tesla App. The other OEMs app can be whatever he likes and his payment modality can be whatever he likes that doesn't involve RFID or credit card readers. IOW Tesla doesn't care how it gets reimbursed for the electricity it delivers as long as it is sure it will get reimbursed. Tesla could bill each other OEM at the end of the month, for example.

In my opinion other EV makers are too lazy to develop/invest in a charging network to make their EVs more attractive to potential customers
Or they don't have the talent to do it. Allowing them to use the Tesla network solves these problems for them - as long as they are willing to pay Tesla

basically most still do not want to sell EVs.
They may not want to have to change but they do have to change and they know it.
 

Tinker71

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Thoughts?
1.) Tesla wants to see massive adaptation of EV. It is part of their mission statement.
2.) Tesla is also an energy company. They will be making money some way or another. Moving peak daily/seasonal demand for renewable energy is going to be a big deal. With Tesla's growing stationary batteries in the form of power walls, supercomputing AI, supercharging network etc. Tesla is better equipped to manage this than any entity. They can manage/control fluctuating prices to buy and sell energy with TSLA taking a cut in each direction.
3.) I would really like to see a world wide standard adapter plug.
4.) 80% of charging should be done level 2 anyway. But for my occasional precious road trip vacation, I am going to be pissed if stuck in long lines/altering plans due to charging.
 

JJ_Tex

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I see 2 major changes coming in EV charging in the next few years:

- Businesses like restaurants, interstate gas stations, and other convenient travel stop locations will be installing chargers so that travelers can stop for 20-30 minutes to recharge and spend $ at their location. Places like Cracker Barrell, Quick Trip, etc. will start to be more forward looking and try to capture the EV crowd.

- Growth in 3rd party chargers that are not tied to a specific car manufacturer, just like you see with the separation between ICE manufacturers and gas stations. Heck, I will even say that at some point it will probably make sense for Tesla to spin off their supercharger stations to become a different company. I could even see the Tesla supercharger network becoming the next Exxon/Mobile type network, especially if those traditional gas stations do not keep up with the new technology.
 

Friday

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I think municipalities will get into the EV charging space, due to the loss of gasoline taxes. Every lightpole can be a potential charger. Maybe there will be parking/charging fees on streets that will go into the gov't coffers for infrastructure costs.

Everybody is gonna want a slice of the charging pie.
 

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If OUR tax dollars are subsidizing any part of the EV market then it damn well better be open to everyone that pays taxes period.
I think everyone here is on the same page with regards to this.

Subsidies for Supercharger build out are speculation.

Some people think opening up the existing network is just bad news all around.

I haven't heard anyone suggest Tesla should get subsidies for opening more Tesla only Superchargers.
 

Ogre

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Teslas aren't more expensive? They sure seem to be when you look at the prices.
Versus other EV? or ICE? You can definitely find less expensive ICE cars. It's a lot tougher with other EVs. Particularly not if you value range at all.

Maybe some examples?
 

Ogre

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I doubt the identity of someone driving a bolt or ID4 is as tied to their car as a Tesla owner. They are already charging at charging stations that is not marked as GM or VW. Tesla supercharger is just another charging station to them. And if Biden can get his ….. together there will be only one app everyone will use for every charging station. I know it is wishful thinking but a man can dream.
I think CCS allows for identifying cars similar to the way Tesla identifies people via the Supercharger. Tesla could conceivably sell CCS -> Supercharger adaptors which have that ID information built in. When they sell the adaptor people would register it then it would work the same way.

Or...

If a Tesla owner wants to charge at the public chargers in the US, they need to purchase the adapter.

Curious to see how this is handled at Tesla Superchargers for non Tesla’s. Will Tesla provide some stalls with a different adapter or require the users to purchase an approved adapter?
In Europe, Tesla switched to CCS on their cars. There is a fair chance they might switch to CCS here in the US as well. I think they support both the Supercharger adaptor and CCS at European Superchargers. Not sure if it's a separate wire or an adaptor.
 
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egandalf

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This is my big fear too but...

Tesla is adding cars faster than any other car maker (all??). If Tesla is able to use government funding from the Biden infrastructure bill to build out the network, they should be able to build out the network even faster.

Or... more cynically, Tesla will do exactly the same thing they would have done previously, but make more money doing it because the government is subsidizing a big chunk of it.
There's also the rumor that Tesla is moving toward 300kW charging. They could also use the funds from either Gov or influx of customers to migrate more chargers from 150kW to the newer gen.

All of this aside, the whole move is 100% in line with Tesla's mission. The fact that they could also stand to pull revenue off of the Mach E, Rivian, or Air owners needing a reliable charge is icing on that cake.
 

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There's also the rumor that Tesla is moving toward 300kW charging. They could also use the funds from either Gov or influx of customers to migrate more chargers from 150kW to the newer gen.

All of this aside, the whole move is 100% in line with Tesla's mission. The fact that they could also stand to pull revenue off of the Mach E, Rivian, or Air owners needing a reliable charge is icing on that cake.
At least on paper, it's right in line with their goal:

Create the most compelling car company of the 21st century while driving the world’s transition to electric vehicles.
It would make me feel a lot better if they had a few more Superchargers near where I go regularly before they opened them up though.
 

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Thoughts?
Smart. Back when they had the only game in town, make all the money you can. Now that everyone is on board, why not make money from all the other EV’s seeking a better/more consistent fast charger? It’s like if Ford made gas stations, would they make more money serving Ford customers only or the entire market?
 

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Smart. Back when they had the only game in town, make all the money you can.
Tesla has actually never made any money on the SC network. The money they lose on it should be considered a marketing expense.
[/QUOTE]

Now that everyone is on board, why not make money from all the other EV’s seeking a better/more consistent fast charger? It’s like if Ford made gas stations, would they make more money serving Ford customers only or the entire market?
Now that everyone is on board there is an opportunity to recoup some of that investment.
 

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**Tinfoil hat firmly installed**

The non-Tesla charging situation is a giant mess. There are a bunch of different charging networks with pretty terrible interfaces (I had to call up an operator to activate one a few weeks ago). Existing equipment is unreliable and non-Tesla Fast DC charging is uncommon. It costs a huge amount of money to build a charging network and the incumbent operator has a huge competitive advantage (if a new competitor tries to move in, just drop prices on your equipment which is a sunk cost).

The next biggest competitor—Electrify America—plans to have 3,500 chargers total online by EOY 2021. Tesla added 5000 between January and the end of May. Tesla's network is growing at a pace of 3-4 Electrify Americas per year.

Is Tesla on its way to having an EV charging monopoly?
 

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Tesla has actually never made any money on the SC network. The money they lose on it should be considered a marketing expense.
I think this is up there with "Tesla doesn't make money selling cars". Aside from the OG unlimited Supercharger Teslas, every time we use a Supercharger, profit is generated. The big question is how many hours of charging does it take before a Supercharger breaks even.

I'm sure expanding the Supercharger network is more expensive than what they bring in by a large margin. But they are buying power for $0.8/ kWh and selling it at $0.28-0.31/ kWh.

Tesla is playing the long game here. The Superchargers are a compliment to their cars, but they will be a big profit center.
 
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