How much would you pay for a range extender.

[Tinker71]

If the rumors are true and the first released models only have 300 is miles of range. First of all I called it. Second there are going to be some disappointed reservation holders.

Most of us won't need 500 miles of range except for 10?? days per year.

Personally our big family vacation is driving from Salt Lake to an undisclosed lake in Northern Idaho. It is 749 miles and 11:20 per Google. I am not retired so every vacation day is precious, so we drive the whole way to avoid the hassle and expense and time of a hotel.

With a 500 mile range with a fairly small aero trailer I could do it in one long stop for a late lunch.
With a 300 mile range, same trailer it would be at least 3 supercharging stops that would have to align. (range anxiety definition)

Personally I don't want to drive a 7000 lb behemoth 355 days per year, but the 10 days I need it for road trips is pretty important to me. I have also done the math and for a $20k premium I could split up the drive with many nice meals and hotels before I use up $20k. I have literally been tormenting myself with spending this $20k or whatever it ends up being.

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In theory if the on board charge draws 9600 watts and you could size a nice compact natural gas genset to provide that power to the charger while driving you could extend your range by 35 mile per hour of driving. This is roughly 15 HP. Turn it on after you leave after about 20 miles and leave it on for the duration of the trip, unless you are supercharging or plugged into a level 2 charger. This could be placed under the tonneau with some clever intake/exhaust ports that get closed on by the cover. get. So gain 350 is miles over 11 hours of driving. With this I would be back to a single supercharging stop.

Current natural gas tech or better yet a fuel cell would minimize the need for emissions or worrying about stinkly exhaust. A quality unit with nice sound/ vibration isolation on a skid that quick connects to a bed or in the case of an RV or other trailer could be trailer mounted. In cold weather a heater loop would further extend the normal range taking the waste heat off the genset for keeping the cab and batteries warm. If Tesla could build an integrated plug that works with the BMS and battery conditioning this would be really cool. Regen might need to be modified somehow.

There have been several small engine innovations that look ideal for a single speed light weight and efficient motor. I am not sure if this is FUD or if they are real., but this skid might be the size of a small desk with fuel tanks.

I think this skid could easily be produced in mass quantities for $10k for the genset anyway. $15,000 for a well integrated TSLA unit.

I wonder what the environmental payback foot print for something like this would be. Lighter truck 90% of the time, less batteries produced etc.

How much would you pay? If this could be rented even better.

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[cvalue13]

Ford F-150 Electric Pickup May Get Newly Patented Range Extender in Its Bed
It looks deceptively like a toolbox, but it could be used to increase the range of the upcoming electric F-150 pickup truck.

From the looks of Ford's patent, the electric pickup range-extender would work exactly the same way, with a twist: All of the generator-related components, from the engine to the fuel to the hookup to the vehicle's power system, would be contained in a box-like unit that could be removed from the truck. The modular design would allow the power unit to be transferred between electric Ford pickups—think of the usefulness for, say, a commercial fleet owner with multiple F-150 EVs which occasionally might need extra driving range for specific tasks. With a boxy design, the range extender has the potential to be "disguised," as the Ford patent puts it, as an in-bed toolbox.

 

[HaulingAss]

I would pay about zero for that. You can't charge while driving and the number and speed of Supercharger stations just keep increasing. Yeah, I know the media keeps publishing scare stories about how long charging takes, but until you experience travel in a Tesla, especially using the newer 250 kWh Superchargers, you might have trouble imaging just how little time you spend stopped and charging, compared to driving.

Having said that, definitely get (or wait) for the 500 mile version if you plan to travel in the remote areas of Idaho/Montana/Midwest in the next 3 years, especially pulling a trailer. It's not that a shorter range cannot do it all, but the time spent charging will be much longer because you will need to use most to nearly all of the battery, rather than just the portion of the battery that charges super-fast between 10% SoC and 60% SoC. I rarely charge my Model 3 Performance past 65% when on a route with a normal distribution of Superchargers. This is what makes long-distance travel so painless, only using the fast half of the pack. That all changes in remote areas if the road you are travelling on doesn't have a good density of Superchargers and that's what can start to lengthen the trip beyond what it would be in an ICE vehicle with normal rest breaks. Pulling a trailer, even a small light one, just magnifies that.

This is why I'm glad Tesla is letting all the EV "riff-raff" on the network, LOL! Because EV's like the F-150 and Mach-e have a more rural distribution than Tesla owners and I figure having more charging customers in rural areas will accelerate the build-out in those areas. Simply having a bigger user base will provide more revenue and create more need to expand faster.

Having said that, the Supercharger Network was already on track to expand to more rural areas because the presence of Superchargers in new areas drives vehicle sales for people who live and travel in those more rural areas. Tesla's constantly expanding production requires more buyers every year so they are constantly expanding the reach of their charging network as well as distribution/service centers to bring in buyers that previously were too isolated or that had a need to travel to isolated areas.

Things are good now and each year they get noticeably better. We live in amazing times in terms of the changing automotive landscape and it's happening faster than most traditional auto analysts dreamed it could.

 

[WormtownKris]

$0.

 

[DMC-81]

Maybe you can take notes from this guy:


It's a bit crude with the noise and the charging efficiency, but the concept works for a range extender.

Of course, it defeats the purpose of an electric car, lol.

 

[FutureBoy]

Maybe you can take notes from this guy:


It's a bit crude with the noise and the charging efficiency, but the concept works for a range extender.

Of course, it defeats the purpose of an electric car, lol.

It defeats the purpose of having ears.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

If the rumors are true and the first released models only have 300 is miles of range. First of all I called it. Second there are going to be some disappointed reservation holders.

Most of us won't need 500 miles of range except for 10?? days per year.

Personally our big family vacation is driving from Salt Lake to an undisclosed lake in Northern Idaho. It is 749 miles and 11:20 per Google. I am not retired so every vacation day is precious, so we drive the whole way to avoid the hassle and expense and time of a hotel.

With a 500 mile range with a fairly small aero trailer I could do it in one long stop for a late lunch.
With a 300 mile range, same trailer it would be at least 3 supercharging stops that would have to align. (range anxiety definition)

Personally I don't want to drive a 7000 lb behemoth 355 days per year, but the 10 days I need it for road trips is pretty important to me. I have also done the math and for a $20k premium I could split up the drive with many nice meals and hotels before I use up $20k. I have literally been tormenting myself with spending this $20k or whatever it ends up being.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

In theory if the on board charge draws 9600 watts and you could size a nice compact natural gas genset to provide that power to the charger while driving you could extend your range by 35 mile per hour of driving. This is roughly 15 HP. Turn it on after you leave after about 20 miles and leave it on for the duration of the trip, unless you are supercharging or plugged into a level 2 charger. This could be placed under the tonneau with some clever intake/exhaust ports that get closed on by the cover. get. So gain 350 is miles over 11 hours of driving. With this I would be back to a single supercharging stop.

Current natural gas tech or better yet a fuel cell would minimize the need for emissions or worrying about stinkly exhaust. A quality unit with nice sound/ vibration isolation on a skid that quick connects to a bed or in the case of an RV or other trailer could be trailer mounted. In cold weather a heater loop would further extend the normal range taking the waste heat off the genset for keeping the cab and batteries warm. If Tesla could build an integrated plug that works with the BMS and battery conditioning this would be really cool. Regen might need to be modified somehow.

There have been several small engine innovations that look ideal for a single speed light weight and efficient motor. I am not sure if this is FUD or if they are real., but this skid might be the size of a small desk with fuel tanks.

I think this skid could easily be produced in mass quantities for $10k for the genset anyway. $15,000 for a well integrated TSLA unit.

I wonder what the environmental payback foot print for something like this would be. Lighter truck 90% of the time, less batteries produced etc.

How much would you pay? If this could be rented even better.

What makes you think that your vacation days are more valuable just because you are still working? Every day for a retired person is a gift and perhaps appreciated more than one for a working person.

 

[FutureBoy]

What makes you think that your vacation days are more valuable just because you are still working? Every day for a retired person is a gift and perhaps appreciated more than one for a working person.

There is SOOOOOO much that can fit into that little "perhaps" there.

Happiness survey results, life span issues, quality of life issues, levels of disability, choices made previously regarding family or other connections, general outlook on life, level of regret vs joy over past choices, amount of remaining close knit community members, remaining mental capacity, levels of curiosity, physical fitness or "hotness", current living situation, and on-and-on.

I get your point. But really its not a good example to use because there is not really anything there that can be reliably compared.

 

[cvalue13]

You can't charge while driving

of course you can, problem is having a cord is long enough

that would be the point of a genny in the back

just additional charge, like regenerative breaking

 

[FutureBoy]

You can't charge while driving

of course you can, problem is having a cord is long enough

Or you can drive in circles. Imagine a cat toy but for really big cats.

 

[SlegMD]

I’d be interested. I’d like to expand CT usage to areas greater than a supercharger range would allow.

 

[Tinker71]

of course you can, problem is having a cord is long enough

that would be the point of a genny in the back

just additional charge, like regenerative breaking

Why couldn't you? There is an interlock that prevents it now but hook in behind it.

 

[Diehard]

There should be a standard setup for all trucks to hookup additional rental batteries with their own BMS with a standard communication protocol so BEV can verify battery is OK and won’t blow up with standard secure locking system. Just rent one for the length of your vacation like a U-Haul. The vendor put it in bed and remove it. I would definitely rent one for my occasional long distance travel and enjoy maximum payload and a higher acceleration all other times. $20-$30K saving for a lower range trim can pay for a lot of rentals. And level 2 charging at home and destination on a larger pack can offset some of the cost of rental. If the system works OK and is not too expensive, it can save a lot of batteries and unnecessary wear on tires and roads.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

There is SOOOOOO much that can fit into that little "perhaps" there.

Happiness survey results, life span issues, quality of life issues, levels of disability, choices made previously regarding family or other connections, general outlook on life, level of regret vs joy over past choices, amount of remaining close knit community members, remaining mental capacity, levels of curiosity, physical fitness or "hotness", current living situation, and on-and-on.

I get your point. But really its not a good example to use because there is not really anything there that can be reliably compared.

I purposely didn’t enumerate/articulate all of the possible reasons because there are so many, and because the one thing that was concrete about what the poster said was that he valued his vacation days because he is working.

 

[JBee]

Lets work on the premise that it is viable, both economically and environmentally.
Because it actually is. It's also strictly necessary for serious off road use.

If you use a natural gas generator you can run it off biomethane instead and effectively carbon capture whilst you charge with it. You can even get methane fuel cells, no vibration, solid state and just CO2 and H2O as fumes.

One thing people on EV forums like to forget is that biofuels are a thing. A big thing. The biggest issue surrounding them is their fuel feedstock resource, like consuming food reserves for making fuel instead. But if you use anaerobic digestion you can make biomethane from waste instead, which reduces biomass emissions and makes fuel at the same time resulting in a net reduction of global warming forcing. Which is better than an EV can do on its own.

The only problem with biomethane is then where can you get it along the way, and how much can you store in a cryogenic LNG tank, or high pressure CNG tank onboard. This applies to a NG setup as well btw.

For vehicles the easier storage method for fuels well as significantly more energy dense, is in a longer hydrocarbon chain fuels like biodiesel or ethanol. Both of these can be produced sustainably as well, but typically require a food based feedstock, which is achievable with more diverse cropping.

As for combustion technology there are quite a few newcomers over the past few years, and I beleive there will be many more that are allowed to come out as fossil demand falls because of EV take up.

The trick with adding a onboard generator is to not install it with a model EV that has a lot of batteries. That way your weight penalties is reduced, and the initial cost of purchase as well.

One of the forerunners of this type of "hybridisation" of BEVs is Obrist from Austria that already have a product in the works to achieve this, also using net carbon negative fuels.

https://www.obrist.at/wp-content/up...Hybrid_Broschuere_doublepage_01_RZ_WEB_en.pdf

Would also fit snugly into the CT Frunk, as it even fits in a smaller M3 frunk. Multifuel capable, and it would have enough continuous output to keep the CT charged for as long as it has fuel. Consumption for the CT should be around a gallon an hour (4L). So that would mean you could do around 350miles on just a single 5 gallon jerry can of fuel. 700miles on two jerry cans, and whatever the EV range is on top, so 1000miles is fairly easily achieved without refuelling.

The main interest for this would be from ANY serious offroader. Driving in sand, snow, mud or loose terrain at any decent speed is a very high power load and high energy consumer. That together with low SC availability in those areas means fuel powered 4x4's will remain dominate for some time until such a hybrid solution is found, or a breakthrough battery density is available. it is not uncommon to use 3x as much fuel in sand whilst 4x4 driving in comparison to onroad, and this extra energy demand can't easily be counteracted on by improving EV drivetrain or aerodynamic efficiency.

The reason is that to propel yourself in sand you physically have to move the sand in front of your wheels to behind your wheels, instead of simply rolling over a flat piece of tarmac. This extra digging "work" requires energy to do, and that needs to come from somewhere, unless you plan on doing a one way trip. This becomes even more expedient in colder climates where solar charging, or population density, let alone heating from the waste heat of the ICE are quite literally "life saving" features of an ICE setup and fuel density.

Given the above the market for a hybrid CT setup is definitely there and will likely remain for the next decade or more. If biofuels continue to advance as they have been, it's also possible that some other technologies go to scale and filter down, like bio-fuel cells. Hydrogen is still off target IMHO, so I'd avoid that, there are much better options. Have a look at the energy mix in Denmark.

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